Kat Wrote: Pilgrim1099 Wrote:I think if we can 'back track' our moves on the desktop, similar to Apple's Time Machine, I don't see how Sam cannot go back inside the Grid and reverse time in several steps before his father got re-integrated with CLU? We have the UNDO command on Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator and such which I use as a valuable tool, even the Brush History allows me to 'Step Backward'. As a User, he should be able to 'warp' the Grid back a few steps but he would have to change 'history' by preventing his father's deresolution and re-write CLU to deal with the new situation at ENCOM and The Dillingers. I know it sounds very 'Deux Ex Machina' to solve the Flynn problem quickly without any hard work, then again the cliche works well because Users are really performing 'deux ex machina' acts. Look what Flynn did to the Solar Sailor in the first film. Very 'Deux Ex', no? So essentially we're talking, he does a system restore and goes back in to change around the events? Sounds very Butterfly Effect to me... though it might be interesting if he went in, changed things around, and found that everything ends up worse...

Kat,

Sort of. For example, let's say I'm digitally creating an image on Photoshop and I've made some mistakes I did'nt like, so I use the 'Step Backward' command to reverse what I did. It is similar to Undo, but it goes backward, remembering my strokes and command, undoing the layers I created, undoing the paint strokes, overlays, etc UP to the point where I left off or the point I want to be at and change directions.

In a way, it is like a 'butterfly effect'. Then again, I'm only speaking in theory if a User can digitally 'backtrack' his steps from the Grid and reverse the events. For some programs like Photoshop, the user can't use UNDO command more than 100 times, depending on the memory space. It all DEPENDS on the memory.

So, essentially, hypothetically Sam would have to go back to the point during the Rectifier attack or the arrival at the portal, but he can't go further back to the point they left off at Tron City. That's too many steps back.

And I often wondered if Quorra's name is wordplay from a mathmatical quotient that might offer some kind of solution to a problem he is working on to get his father out relating to programming code. Who knows? Then again, what was Quorra's function as an ISO anyway besides being a warrior?

Pilgrim1099 Wrote:Well, even if he does find and track down Dr. Lora Bradley, the estranged wife of Alan, how would he explain Quorra to her? Or explain his father's situation? I think it's a question of how much time and development they can focus on her character in the script to move the story to make it happen. OR would it make sense for Sam to try his hand in finding his father?

First off, Alan and Lora are not estranged. If they were, she wouldn't have been at the San Francisco. She was there by Alan's side, no sign of any kind of estrangeness between them. Lora only went away for about a year to work in Washington, DC and then came back. Second of all, Sam doesn't have to explain Quorra. If Lora saw her and Sam together, she'd automatically assume their either friends or boyfriend/girlfriend. Seriously, there's nothing out of the ordinary about Quorra from what I can tell at the end of the film. She doesn't seem at all different from any human being. So, unless Sam tells Lora out right, she's not going to know. Besides, Sam has a copy of Flynn's Grid and the underground office where his father has the laser. I'm sure that Lora can look at the programming and tell that Sam is telling the truth (and like I said, Flynn could have told Lora about his experience in the Game Grid, and she probably believed him because of the fact that she knew digitizing was real)

After all, the Shiva laser is STILL sitting in the arcade basement. I would'nt be surprised if he smuggles it out into his own garage home or moved to somewhere a bit more secure in a new house, perhaps with an underground lab all to himself.

It's possible. But then again, the laser in the arcade was patched into an electric substation. Since the Shiva laser in the first film took up the whole room, it's possible that it requires a lot of power to run (and since Flynn patched it into a substation, he had access to all of the power he needed for the laser to work). I would say taking the laser back to the original Encom building may be the best bet (as we know Encom has a tower that is the primary HQ, but they could very well be using the old building for other divisions of Encom, including the gaming division and Dumont Shipping).

I think if we can 'back track' our moves on the desktop, similar to Apple's Time Machine, I don't see how Sam cannot go back inside the Grid and reverse time in several steps before his father got re-integrated with CLU? We have the UNDO command on Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator and such which I use as a valuable tool, even the Brush History allows me to 'Step Backward'. As a User, he should be able to 'warp' the Grid back a few steps but he would have to change 'history' by preventing his father's deresolution and re-write CLU to deal with the new situation at ENCOM and The Dillingers. I know it sounds very 'Deux Ex Machina' to solve the Flynn problem quickly without any hard work, then again the cliche works well because Users are really performing 'deux ex machina' acts. Look what Flynn did to the Solar Sailor in the first film. Very 'Deux Ex', no?

You open that can of worms, then people will begin asking why doesn't Sam "warp" the Grid all the way back to CLU's coup and stop the ISOs from being killed, thus defeating the point of Quorra being last and special (and if you say that it's overwritten, then they can argue that the program was running and for all we know there's probably thousands of save points along the 20+ years). Having that option doesn't seem to work. There has to be consequences when it comes to actions on the Grid. There can't be an easy "undo" option, as most viewers would find it a completely insulting (look at Season Eight of Dallas or the ending of St. Elsewhere).

Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.on line abortion pill misoprostol dose abortion medical abortion pill onlineabortion pills online abortion pill online purchase cytotec abortion

Pilgrim1099 Wrote:CB2001, That's interesting because I thought they were divorced, in my impression, from the two-part prequel comic from Marvel prior to Tron: Legacy's release from the scene where Lora had to leave ENCOM, even though Alan stayed put.

Nope, they're still together. I re-read the comic and Lora assures Flynn that she and Alan are still together. Many people assume they're not because she left for Washington for work. But many people don't get is that people are married and have to leave to work in different parts of the nation, if not the world (a good example are truck drivers. Truck drivers drive semis all over the nation and, if they're married, they still come home once in a while).

Then again, it probably was'nt very well fleshed out in the story to build from that point. I know of the Tron 2.0 alternate story even though it is'nt considered "canon" and I've never played the game. I know of the lesser known comic "Ghost in the Machine", I believe, as a follow up from the previous story.

Well, Alan and Lora appear to be married in every version of the TRON sequels, canon and non-canon alike. "Ghost in the Machine" is a followup to the "TRON 2.0" game (since you haven't played the game, I recommend it. You'd be surprised about how similar in certain details the game is to T:L and maybe it'll help in getting an idea on why people like myself want to see Jet Bradley involved in the next story).

If they're going to bring in Lora Baines, it might not be for the whole duration of the film and take a small part of it, perhaps a good 10 minutes. Like I said, the last thing the TRON writers want to do is pull a "Spiderman 3" and having that too many characters shoved in ruined it. Sam Raimi admitted he did this, bending backwards to fan demands of putting Venom in and he did'nt want to do it originally, to my understanding, and focus only on the Lizard.

As for the Shiva laser, I can understand what you're saying about the thing being connected to a power source and I can see why he had it hidden in a downtown/metro area to suck up that much juice. Essentially, if Sam wants more power, all he needs to do is smuggle the laser into ENCOM in a private lab of his own or at the older building from the first movie. If I'm not mistaken, that large vault door Sam walked through was probably the very same vault Flynn and friends snuck through to their offices in the first film. But as CEO, he can do whatever he wants and I'll bet his Shiva laser lab will get Dillinger's attention, making him suspicious. THAT is where I think they will go with.

That'd definitely be useful as a setup. But I think that both the Dillengers would know about the Shiva laser, somehow, and that Sam opening up a private lab would result in confirming what they know.

And yes, it is a can of worms to do the 'back tracking' to return to the saved points. However, I do agree there has to be consequences and that consequence is called a memory limit. In Photoshop, the number of UNDOs you can make depends on the memory on your system. Sam might not be able to revert or go back that many steps in the Grid. I was only suggesting that being a User, he is that intelligent enough to be creative in solving problems and suggesting that he can't undo the ISO/Program war which is too far back. Maybe no more than 5 or 10 steps and that's it. I know that with Apple's Time Machine technology, we can go back to a certain 'saved point' where our files were the way they were placed before the final iteration point.

But if you look at the software and remember what software was like in the 1980s, "undo" really didn't exist in any programs until (I think) Microsoft Windows came out. And even then, that was with one step back. So, it's possible that there being an "Undo" option on Flynn's Grid may not even exist, let alone be possible (especially since he's designed it as a sandbox program, which seems to simulate its own reality).

But doing that requires memory and, if I'm not mistaken, an extra hard drive. I don't use Time Machine on my iMac and have no need for it, let alone a small external LaCie drive which does the job fine for me. If we look at the film, Flynn's servers in the basement looked pretty big, almost twice the size of a PC tower and who knows how many drive bays he put in there to run the Grid. "Rinzler" is now lost in the Sea of Simulation and is very far away from Tron City. How will Sam 'salvage' Tron 2.0 in there? In a sense, Rinzler is considered in the 'trash can' in digital limbo. Not deleted, but close to that point. And since he removed the Grid and put it in his memory card, everything in there is frozen.

But the thing about "Rinzler"/TRON is that he's not derezzed. And not to mention, he's not a human being. And since the Shiva laser used Flynn's matter and Quorra's digital DNA to create a real world version of her (unless in the next film they say that Quorra isn't made of Flynn's matter, we have to assume that is likely since one member here stated on the dual viewing option on the Blu-Ray showed that the matter of a user is stored on the containers near the base of the laser), Flynn may not be able to be "undone" for the fact that he's not a program, so even if Sam did "undo" the Grid to a point back where Flynn existed, he may not be there. But then again, we don't know if Flynn is recoverable, let alone if the Grid could be reset to a point.

All the programs don't move as if time stood still. Once the card is put back into the computer, programs can then move when there is power running. Someone mentioned Rinzler can track Users, so it's possible to use him to find Flynn's pieces, but I would think that Tron 3 would not be complete without a new CLU. After all, Disney spent a LOT of money digitizing Jeff Bridges for his digital counterpart. The studio execs would want to re-use some of the material and improve on it.

Well, CLU may or may not be essential for the next film. Many people complained about the CG work on CLU, so there's a chance that they may decide to not use CLU again because of the technical difficulties that came with it (and that's actually more money to put into the pocket of the production because that is one less person to pay and more time to focus on other areas of the production). I personally didn't mind CLU (or even the CG Flynn at the beginning of the film), in fact I thought it was amazing and an impressive technical achievement that should be recognized by everyone, but I can't tell you how many reviews (both professional and typical user reviews) I've read where many thought that CLU's CG was just terrible.

So what other solution besides 'finding Flynn's missing pieces' that sounds almost like a video game premise to make it more plausible? The last thing I had to deal with collecting a bunch of missing pieces was for a spacecraft to escape Earth on SEGA's "Toe Jam and Earl" :/. Is it cliche? You bet. I'm not knocking the game and think it's one of the greatest games of all time from the 1990s. And still own the cartridge . Do we want the writers to go that cliche route or be a bit more creative than that? And how much time or footage of Tron 3 should focus on the 'collecting Flynn's pieces' plot?

I agree with you on Toe Jam and Earl (great game), but honestly if a guy can make three movies about people walking to a freakin' volcano and it be chock full of cliches, and somehow manage to draw an audience for all three, then I don't see how finding pieces of Flynn would be hurtful to a film. Honestly, if people here are worried about that as being the main point of TRON 3, then how about we save the "finding Flynn pieces" for part of the story of another ARG (like Flynn Lives was for this one) or another tie-in comic, where we find that in between Part 2 and Part 3, Sam Flynn moved the laser and he, Lora and Alan recover TRON from Flynn's Grid and modified him to search for the any digital pieces of Flynn (or even using Anon from the TRON: Evolution game)

If they don't go that route, then Kevin Flynn will become a digital 'ghost' like Obi Wan guiding Sam. He might even have his essence 'saved' by Sam but constructed almost like an MCP. I think Radia in Tron: Evolution was like an MCP of sorts, after seeing some YouTube clips, but in Flynn's case, he may have to stay put in order to, well, stay alive to run the Grid himself. If he leaves, he dies permanently, not too different from the Knights Templar in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade where he guarded the Grail for centuries within the magical marker.

Kinda like what happened with Lora in the TRON 2.0 video game, where after the accident that killed her, Alan incorporated the digitized parts of Lora into Ma3a. Lora Bradley is dead and gone in the game, but the only thing that remains is what was digitized and incorporated into Ma3a (which is why she sounds like Lora and has the "correction algorithms" for the digitization process as Lora's job was performing the digitization experiments as we saw in the first film). In the game, there's no way Lora Bradley is coming back. Since the films established that the game is non-canon, it doesn't mean the same thing can't be applied to Flynn. The biggest irony would be if Sam actually ended up creating a CLU 3.0 and took whatever was left of his father and incorporating them into that CLU, to which he ends up taking on some personality quirks of Flynn.

And I can say that Tron 3 is a huge burden on the new writer's shoulders because he has to, quote Tony Soprano's famous words to Christopher (HBO's Sopranos), "unf--k what they f----d up on" (I'm referring to the LOST writers).

To me, the only thing they sort of messed up was the ISOs backstory. That's something that can be fixed (since Quorra is an ISO, we may be able to finally see what kind of impact she has on our society, since Sam took up the task of "changing the world" that his father started in addition to taking back Encom).order abortion pill abortion pill buy online where to buy abortion pill