Yes, all valid and I was only using Flynn's line as an example... He wouldn't have known what was going on of course and his words weren't intended to be taken literally.

On the other hand, we know exactly how the laser works courtesy of Dr Walter Gibbs.

From the script.

Not disintegrating, Alan -- digitizing.
While the laser is dismantling the
molecular structure of the object,
the computer maps out a holographic
model of it. The molecules themselves
are suspended in the laser beam. Then
the computer reads the model back out,
the molecules go back into place, and...
(indicates ball)
voila.

So that is cannon. That is how the laser works...

Based on current science, it's quite possible to explain everything in the original TRON story... Even how the computer world exists... OK, that's not entirely scientific, but then neither is human consciousness.

Anyway, the simple version is that despite its flaws, Tron 2.0 remained pretty close to the original story and it got a LOT of respect from the hardcode fanbase for that...

There were things people didn't like still... Lora dying was one of them ( She was killed in a digitization accident ) and the inference that Alan was trying to save her in Ma3a was clear... So Jet's mom became a computer program.

You had to read all the emails and put a timeframe to them all to see the entire story.

Anyway, about thermodynamics...

OK, Spoiler time about Legacy.

The plot revolves around programs being able to go back to the real world where they will "take over". Where the heck are all those atoms ( or all that energy ) supposed to come from?

David1

cirlin Wrote: David1 Wrote: OK, Spoiler time about Legacy. The plot revolves around programs being able to go back to the real world where they will "take over". Where the heck are all those atoms ( or all that energy ) supposed to come from? David1 I came up with a quasi-explanation for myself. It's not any more realistic than the rest of the Tron world, but it's a good enough explanation for me. I figure it has something to do with the way particles gain mass as they are accelerated closer to the speed of light. Perhaps the un-digitizing process sped up the particles Quorra was made of and so she gained enough mass to be real...or something

Well, I think what happens is that we are not told about the Shiva's potiential for creation because most of us have not seen it up close. When I saw it this summer in DC, I noticed that there were a few containers attached to the base of the laser. These were clearly marked "Carbon" and "H2O" and there may have been another. I thought perhaps these were added elements to help weed out any "single bit errors" that may occur on a quantum level during the digitzing process, but what if they are basically construction elements that allow programs to be quantum assembled into flesh and blood beings. This combined with her Bio Digital nature could have been part of Flynn's whole ethos on what the changes the ISO's would be presenting to humanity.

Having no foundation is adventurous, for sure, but with it comes more types of risks, injury, and argument, and the arguments rooted in personal preference and confabulation aren't much better than arguments rooted in fact. In a creative endeavor, the preferential opinion wins out, but recreating requires facts if any argument is to hold water. Integrity can be fluid, it just needs to be impenetrable at the rights points. If Kevin Flynn is the character's name, and one insists on calling him Mr. Morgensturn because one likes it better that way, it's risky, and adventurous, while leaving one isolated, or causing a schism in a group. If one aspect is up in the air, than all is. It's easy. The movies, the ones with the vision separate from the money, Lisberger, MacBird, Serafine, and not the ones marketing, funding, or distributing any of it, making money on even clearly loosely interpretive products, are the heart and soul, and the rest of the official material is fan-made with the money-maker's blessing. Go to the source. Disney's not the source, but only a critical partner.where to buy abortion pill abortion types buy abortion pill online

lurkinghorror Wrote:The idea of "official" canon is obviously shifting ground. Back in 2004, Tron 2.0 was THE official direction for Tron. Right now, the general opinion is that Legacy IS the official canon. And in all likelihood, there will be an eventual release that will "retcon" this fictional reality once more.

This is true, but 2.0 still worked in the same universe as Tron... Legacy is completely different. The graphical changes alone were so significant as to almost render it a different story. This is just on a technical/visual level and isn't anything to do with the plot elements themselves.

The only solution that comes to mind to explain the discrepances between the two are simply that the first movie ( Tron ) isn't cannon either, but only represents a limit capability to have told the story of Tron, while based on what Legacy makes cannon.

There's no doubt that they put a lot of stuff in there for the fans - and it was nice to see, but I can't help but come away with the feeling that legacy simply isn't anything more than an action movie which was "tweaked" to tie in with Tron and lost much of the real charm that endeared the original movie to a legion of fans for over a quarter of a century.

Fuel-and-fire based explosions in the digital world? Programs acting like people? Sorry, but 2,0 showed us how to do that stuff correctly

Read the reviews on Tron Evolution. Most point out how great 2.0 was while slamming evolution as sucking.

It just feels like Legacy was simply about how to make money and that means making it appeal to as wide an audience as possible.

Of course the first TRON was no different, but they managed to create something really special there, at least to the fans... I would say the same for 2.0... I wouldn't say the same for Legacy.

Nonetheless Legacy was still an enjoyable movie. If I stop trying to reconcile the differences between Tron and Legacy, then it's not so bad. Would modern audiences have gotten or understood a movie told in the same style as Tron? Or even 2.0? Probably not.

But that was the movie I really wanted to see...

I wanted derezzing, not falling into cubes.
I wanted neon-edged primitives and lack of detail, not a recreation of real world physics.
I want recognizers that float, not sit on a thrusters. I want tanks and bits and bytes...

Dammit, I wouldn't even have minded a more Mercury-like Quorra with fake polygonal hair.

Sure computers have evolved, but they were no less evolved when they made 2.0... Still, it remained faithful to the original.

And in the end, that was what I wanted. To that extent, I'd be interested to know how others feel about the same issue.

Because in a nutshell, that's what I missed... Other criticisms aside, the story itself was fine. Hmmm Digital pigs to eat on the table... What's wrong with liquid energy?

David1.

David1 Wrote: This is true, but 2.0 still worked in the same universe as Tron... Legacy is completely different. The graphical changes alone were so significant as to almost render it a different story. This is just on a technical/visual level and isn't anything to do with the plot elements themselves. (snip) David1.

I discussed my feelings about the change in direction in the new film in my thread entitled "Why Tron Legacy is not Avatar, and the original Tron is". You and I hit on some of the same concerns, though I concluded that despite the radical differences I still found Legacy quite enjoyable on it's own merits.

I do believe that Legacy-verse Tron is very much it's own thing, and it's up to us fans to keep the spirit of the original TRON alive. Legacy is cool, in fact it's pretty damned awesome, but it's not the TRON we knew and loved growing up. It's not the same optimistic vision of a Singularity type digital transcendence. It's not a story about getting out of this world and creating a new one where brains rule over brawn and the l337 are the elite.

The thing is, TRON as much as we love it isn't the only source for such a vision. Neonpunk and cyberpunk visions existed before and after TRON, and Syd Mead's style extends beyond the confines of one Disney-owned property. Even Disney can't copyright an idea or a style of visual expression, and it's pretty clear at this point that Disney is no longer interested in the 80s neonpunk visual style anyhow.

Tanks and light cycles and disc battles are cool, but they aren't what TRON was really all about. They're not what kept us fans coming back. What kept TRON alive in the minds of fans for so many years was the vision of a world inside the computer, a world of infinite possibilities and rules that are logical. A place where mind over matter is a fact.

A neon-drenched, computer themed neonpunk Second Life is what we need to see and to make happen. A place we visit and interact inside first through our computer screens, but as technology progresses we enter through advancing states of VR until the point we can actually migrate there.

We don't need Disney, or the name TRON, or the specifics of the film to make this vision real. We can the real meaning behind it to life.

I think Tron 2.0 is a starting point. But it's by far not the end.

David1 Wrote: The only thing I didn't like was the ending, so I wrote Tron 2.1 - A 300,000 word fanfic continuation.

Sounds interesting, can you post a link please?