in the EOL club scene, kevin crashes the already ongoing fight scene and programs appear fighting back. were they programs already in the club before all of that began? who had like a boost of bravery coz their creator was there. or, were they members of the rebels that kevin went to pick up before he got to the EOL club?

Kat Wrote:I assume the former. If you recall, the Black Guard come through the skylight and start fighting programs (remember the one who yells "Resist!" and some of the programs there fight). They were getting their asses handed to them until Flynn showed up; I have no idea what changed.

Me either. The program that yelled "Resist!" was Bartick, the dude with the REALLY bad scar across his face. I was bummed to see him die as well as I know a bit about his back story.

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BlueTronWarrior Wrote:Maybe when Flynn touched the ground and made everything come to a halt it incompassitated the black guards for a moment giving the rebels a chance to gain the upper hand...

That was what I thought too, that somehow Kevin made it possible for them to defeat the Guard.

BlueTronWarrior Wrote:Maybe when Flynn touched the ground and made everything come to a halt it incompassitated the black guards for a moment giving the rebels a chance to gain the upper hand...

After watching Legacy again this evening I'm really thinking you're right. After Kevin dims the room you see the guards trying to get their weapons again, and in one case it sorta looked like one guard was standing there as if stunned.

Thanks again for this!

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Probably more convenient just to call a bad scene, a bad scene. Nobody has been able to give this a concrete answer.

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DV8ER Wrote: Kat Wrote:I assume the former. If you recall, the Black Guard come through the skylight and start fighting programs (remember the one who yells "Resist!" and some of the programs there fight). They were getting their asses handed to them until Flynn showed up; I have no idea what changed. Me either. The program that yelled "Resist!" was Bartick, the dude with the REALLY bad scar across his face. I was bummed to see him die as well as I know a bit about his back story. -D

I probably should have let you know the back story I know... There was a book released called "Tron Legacy: Initiate Sequence." It's a "choose your own adventure" style book, which I loved when I was a kid, now I find it freaking annoying, but none the less the book is riddled with additional details. Bartik is the leader of the rebels and has two main people he works with named Kindra and Veltor. In this book, you can choose the standard Legacy path and it bascially is the same story, but if you decide not to get in the light runner with Quorra things change drastically and you find yourself meeting these guys. They send you off on a mission to find your father in the out-lands to attempt to get him to help.

Anyway just thought I'd throw that in there... Given Bartik and his leadership role, it really does make you wonder WTF with that scene!

-D

DevourTheLiving Wrote: Tron getting "his ass *handed* to him"? By Clu, maybe. Sam and Quorra? They surprised him and caught him off guard. I don't know if that really counts as beating him in a straight-up fight or anything.

Surprised? No. I'll never buy that. Sloppy tactical technique. Sam surprises him for about two seconds, and then his discs are out and he's ready-- as he should be, if he's a skilled, trained, and seasoned fighter. Quorra? Shouldn't have happened. You don't knock a threat down gently and then forget about it. You keep an eye on your targets/threats-- ALWAYS-- until you know they're neutralized. And we know from earlier fight scenes that he can certainly handle far more than two opponents, so this should NOT have been a problem for him; he should've been aware of what she was doing and where she was constantly, and probably should've made sure to put her out for the count to begin with if he didn't want to deal with her further. It's not like she was even behind him or anything; was the guy completely lacking in peripheral vision?

This is Tronzler we're talking about. The dude who fought off several of the Black Guard at once when Clu attacked. The dude who, when Clu did attack, has sized up the situation and figured out what's going on while Flynn's still all "hey Clu what's going on man?" The dude who's prepared enough that he makes sure to always carry a spare baton just in case. The dude who catches a glimpse of Quorra out of the corner of his eye and snaps his head around and then hits the ground running a split second later to catch her. The dude who is like the boss level of the Disc Games and totally vanquishes whoever manages to get that far. The dude who *singlehandedly* keeps *all* the baddies and illegal processes of the Grid in line. The dude whose lightcycle is blown up right underneath him and gets himself together and has rezzed up a new one before he's even halfway back to the ground. The dude who easily takes Q down in an earlier scene like it's a piece of cake (though she doesn't seem to be trying very hard). And then I'm supposed to believe he throws her on the ground and then ignores her as if she no longer exists, and doesn't notice when she's about to boot him in the gut? No way, man. He's light-years better than that. The Tronzler they showed us for much of the film wouldn't have taken his eye off her to begin with, but if he somehow did, he'd definitely notice she's about to attack and probably dispatch her with one disc while still battling Sam with the other.

Kat Wrote: DevourTheLiving Wrote: Tron getting "his ass *handed* to him"? By Clu, maybe. Sam and Quorra? They surprised him and caught him off guard. I don't know if that really counts as beating him in a straight-up fight or anything. Surprised? No. I'll never buy that. Sloppy tactical technique. Sam surprises him for about two seconds, and then his discs are out and he's ready-- as he should be, if he's a skilled, trained, and seasoned fighter. Quorra? Shouldn't have happened. You don't knock a threat down gently and then forget about it. You keep an eye on your targets/threats-- ALWAYS-- until you know they're neutralized. And we know from earlier fight scenes that he can certainly handle far more than two opponents, so this should NOT have been a problem for him; he should've been aware of what she was doing and where she was constantly, and probably should've made sure to put her out for the count to begin with if he didn't want to deal with her further. It's not like she was even behind him or anything; was the guy completely lacking in peripheral vision? This is Tronzler we're talking about. The dude who fought off several of the Black Guard at once when Clu attacked. The dude who, when Clu did attack, has sized up the situation and figured out what's going on while Flynn's still all "hey Clu what's going on man?" The dude who's prepared enough that he makes sure to always carry a spare baton just in case. The dude who catches a glimpse of Quorra out of the corner of his eye and snaps his head around and then hits the ground running a split second later to catch her. The dude who is like the boss level of the Disc Games and totally vanquishes whoever manages to get that far. The dude who *singlehandedly* keeps *all* the baddies and illegal processes of the Grid in line. The dude whose lightcycle is blown up right underneath him and gets himself together and has rezzed up a new one before he's even halfway back to the ground. The dude who easily takes Q down in an earlier scene like it's a piece of cake (though she doesn't seem to be trying very hard). And then I'm supposed to believe he throws her on the ground and then ignores her as if she no longer exists, and doesn't notice when she's about to boot him in the gut? No way, man. He's light-years better than that. The Tronzler they showed us for much of the film wouldn't have taken his eye off her to begin with, but if he somehow did, he'd definitely notice she's about to attack and probably dispatch her with one disc while still battling Sam with the other.

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I think its a little of Arrogance and the unexpected rather than surprise or being caught off guard. The unexpected was Sam having an extra disk, "Tronzler" made a last min defensive move which Quorra took advantage of, it was not for lack of skill from Tronzler's point of view just the knowledge that he is the only program on the grid who has two disks he more than likely has never come along that situation himself. In his mind Sam took and wasted his one shot, if Quorra was not there Sam would not have stood a chance. No doubt if Quorra had tried to attack Tronzler at any other point he would have killed her no argument.

And even if he did see what Quorra was about to do there was little he could do about it, in a narrow opening with a disk coming at him. If he avoided Quorra he risked Derezolution, if he maintained his block he gets a foot in the face but lives on to continue the fight. If you notice Sam and Quorra don't stick about to find out if he was dead or not they quickly make an exit, they knew that if Tronzler was alive they were in big trouble.