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 Was Dillinger all THAT bad?


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TheJediUnit
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Posts: 474
Was Dillinger all THAT bad?

on Sunday, January, 26, 2003 9:45 PM
We all love to hate him, but stop and think about it. Was Dillinger really all that villianous?

It seems the two worst things he did was take credit for Flynn's games and fire him. So, if you think about it, Dillinger must have been Flynn's superior at Encom since he had the authority to fire him. With that, Flynn was apparently using the company computers to develop his own personal programs. Alan sure seemed to know company policy in not using company property for personal projects, so it's safe to assume Flynn was not complying and might have deserved getting fired. Nextly, anything on the company computers is concidered company property, especially if he might have been on the clock when he made them, so while the games could be concidered Encom property it's not that much of a stretch that Dillinger had rightful authority over them if it was in his department. Now, this is skipping over any ethical implications, but does that make Dillinger all that bad?

To go further, he seemed to not be very abusive to the other employees. He gets a bit mouthy to Dumont, but Dumont was sure talking trash to his superior too. Heck it's their job to do what he says, so what's so bad if he denies them access to the system when they still get their salary regardless while the company resolves it's own internal matters in it's own way? That's all he did. He seemed to be only building the business to me, not violating any employees outside their job descriptions.

Plus, while the MCP is clearly villianous against computer world characters, it doesn't seem so guilty of illegal activity in the real world. Capable of it, yes. Planning it, yes. Presently guilty? No. Also, there is no implications that any of the so-called 'appropriated programs' weren't Encom programs in the first place and technically company property. While Encom might be networked to other companies, there is no direct implication that the programs are actually stolen from outside Encom domain, not enough to magnify villiany anyway.

To go even further, he seems to have realized the beast the MCP was becoming and didn't plan for it to become any more than a buisiness tool to make Encom money. Once the MCP started acting, well, koo koo, he seemed to want to choke it down, and he seems to me to be willing to pull the plug on it before it did any real worldly damage. Look at his reactions. He doesn't like the MCP any more than Flynn, Alan or Tron. While his complete intentions aren't clear, what does seem clear is that he didn't have conquest in mind, just business.

Anyway, it's just a thought.

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"Having is not as pleasing a thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."
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Compucore
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Not to disagree with you.

on Monday, January, 27, 2003 12:16 AM
If you remember as I do. Flynn was on his way of creating his own company when Dillinger had canned him. This didn't mean that the software games that he had developpd for Encom was going to go with him else where. I have built several computer inventory databases of my own for different companies. Does that mean that I had made them all the same way. Not really. Since the database system that I had developed was unique to that business. (Meaning that they were inhouse software applications. So I did not keep it the same for each company. That way there was no way of complaining that each of the databases are the same. I think this was the way of Flynn. But also I think that Dillinger also took all the credit for Flynn's and said that he had created them. Which I find unjustifyable. since you cannot take someone elses work and call it yours. Without looking directly at the source code. And if someone was to look at that part. And saw that they are the same code. well then you an say that someone was cheating on someone else.

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Compucore

VROOOOOOOOOMMMM!!!

To compute or not to compute that is the question at hand. Tis nobler to compile in C++ or in TASM.


 
Trace
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on Monday, January, 27, 2003 12:42 AM
I think JediUnit has some interesting observations. When I worked at Disney, it was clear that if I created anything or wrote anything (like a screenplay) while in their employ--even if it was for me and not written on company computers--I still had to give them first dibs on my work. Sounds similar to what Flynn was doing.

Ethically, Dillinger was wrong to claim that he created the games. And I think that was the movie's premise--Dillinger broke some kind of law. But it is clear that he doesn't like what the MCP has become although we don't get to see how Dillinger would've handled it if Flynn and Tron hadn't succeeded.

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Sketch
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on Monday, January, 27, 2003 1:05 AM
Yeah, Dillinger isn't that bad a character, of chorse remember the movie kinda revolves around the alter ego idea. Sark was sadistic compared to Dillinger, the sneaky little weasle.

You worked at Disney Trace? Neat.
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IsoLine
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on Monday, January, 27, 2003 2:07 AM
What you are describing Compucore, is something that at the time was indemic to the videogame industry. Alot of game designers never recieved mention or royalties for their work on games for the big companies like Atari and such. It was'nt until some of the third party companies came along like Acitvision and Imagic that the actual designer's names were added to the documentation of the games, which of course created a trend in the industry to the point that not even powerhouses like Atari and Mattel could ignore it and thus they had to credit their designers and begin giving them royalties to compete with the third party houses, lset they loose their top talent. Designers like David Crane and others have wonderful stories about such incidents.

Trace is right about the incident she described as well. I cannot remember the name of the clause but it falls under intellectual property rights I believe (don't quote me though, media law wasn't my strong suit.). I know it isn't always that way, it depends on the company involved.

I guess Encom could have a intellectual property rights clause in their employment contract, but perhaps there was a fair compensation clause in th contract that Dillinger worked around in order to take Flynn' s right to just compensation. I also think this was a subtle point Lisburger was driving home, that alot of the makers of this entertainment were virtually kept unknown by their masters. Hmmmmmm. Tron, is a revolutionary tale on more than one level

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Program BASIC
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Posts: 148
My view

on Monday, January, 27, 2003 8:21 AM
Great discussion here! JediUnit is DA MAN

Ironically, both SARK and DILLINGER were slaves of their own impulses (read: individual ambitions). Both of them didn't feel so confortable with MCP's distructive philosophy, but they were *SHEEPS* (or *COW*, if you like) that truly use to follow the best maverick in town just in need to survey. They're gamblers, nothing more, nothing less. They knew how to accomplish their purposes (not necessarly bad) --- still, they can see the line between "good" and "evil" so much clearly, but they're simply too much scared and careful for themself to renegade their own impulses in the safe of their next.

JediUnit: really saved our world too. He was not only the hero of the Electroverse. was absorbing "external Programs" who occupied important roles in the World strategy. Pratically, the MASTER CONTROL PROGRAM would be seen as SKYNET's elder brother ("THE TERMINATOR" was released in 1984).
MCP was dangerous as hell! There is no chance to see it through a new pair of sunglasses .

Alan didn't like Flynn. I think there was too much between distinction, envy, jealousy (for Lora) between them. Alan was interested in rescuing TRON, that's why he helped Flynn. I think Flynn wanted just to "savage" his fathership on the Programs he wrote --- of course they were planned to be ENCOM from day one. No doubts.
Flynn was honest. Don't forget he became ENCOM's big boss, so I think he cared for the company.

As for ED DILLINGER... he's still matter of hit-and-miss.

Greeting, Programs !!!!!!!!!

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is program's best friend. Don't betray it --- NEVER!
 
TheJediUnit
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on Monday, January, 27, 2003 11:31 AM
Thanks everyone. Disney Trace? Huh.

I'm sort of with Sketch on this. It seems that the computer world characters were exaggerations of their human counterparts. Dillinger wasn't as evil as Sark nor was Alan as true-blue as Tron. Thier personifications were made black and white and no grey areas.

It almost seems to me that Dillinger was something of a Dr. Frankenstien in that he became a puppet of his own creation and Sark included. The MCP was the real evil mastermind while was just "Vader to his Emperor", even though didn't stop the MCP. I think at first he was building the MPC to build a corporation, but later was helping the MPC out of fear of getting in it's way too.

It's like Dillinger became his somewhat reluctant agent, in a way. I almost felt sorry for him in the end. Perhaps he's just in a plush cell next to the Enron CEO's.

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"Having is not as pleasing a thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."
--Spock
 
TriggerEXE
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Posts: 339
Yep ^_^

on Monday, January, 27, 2003 12:00 PM
He is all that bad. Remember, Dillinger was in the same position as Flynn. Remember what Flynn said, "Enter another programmer. Not so young, not so bright, but very very sneaky. Ed Dillinger." He and Flynn were likely working in the same office, but Dillinger was able to hack into Flynn's account and steal his game programs. Then he presented them to the higher ups at Encom and got a "big fat promotion." When he got high enough, I guess he fired Flynn. Probably made that first priority. He was just a lowly employee same as Flynn until he got promoted. Stealing like that is definatly illegal. So yes, he is just that evil. Sure, he didn't see what the MCP would become, but he didn't try to stop it. By the time he found out, the MCP had a leesh on him.

I like the comparison to Dr. Frankenstien though. Hehe "It's pronounced Fronk-en-steen" A man creates a monster and it gets out of his control. Very good. Very good. where to buy abortion pills online http://www.extrageek.com/template/default.aspx?an-abortion-pill buy abortion pills onlinei need to buy the abortion pill read here order abortion pillwhere to buy abortion pills online abortion pill pill for abortion onlinemedical abortion pill online open buy abortion pills online

"The dark can embrace the light, but never eclipse it."
 
TheJediUnit
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on Monday, January, 27, 2003 12:19 PM
Thanks Trigger!

You're right too. He DID say he came in after Flynn and could have possibley got his promotions AFTER he stole it from Flynn. I didn't remember that. That does make his villiany more clear.

Thanks Trigger for the great clarification on it.

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"Having is not as pleasing a thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."
--Spock
 
Program BASIC
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Posts: 148
TRIGGER

on Monday, January, 27, 2003 12:28 PM
Yeah, Trigger, you matched the point .

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is program's best friend. Don't betray it --- NEVER!
 
TheJediUnit
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Posts: 474
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on Monday, January, 27, 2003 1:42 PM
I like it fine too.

I like the gamblers comparison. I can see that too now that you point it out very well.

I also like your term "electroverse". Is that your concoction or is that canon? I never heard it used before and it's pretty cool.where to buy abortion pills online http://www.extrageek.com/template/default.aspx?an-abortion-pill buy abortion pills online

"Having is not as pleasing a thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."
--Spock
 
Program BASIC
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Posts: 148
HE

on Monday, January, 27, 2003 7:50 PM
I created it. I'm a semi-professional sci-fi writer, and my mind is supposed to work this way, you know. I can't stop to create words or concepts in my twisted mind! - ehhehehehe :{where to buy abortion pill http://blog.bitimpulse.com/template/default.aspx?abortion-types buy abortion pill onlineabortion pills online abortion questions cytotec abortionwhere to buy abortion pills online an abortion pill buy abortion pills onlinei need to buy the abortion pill abortion pill order abortion pillabortion pills read here abortion pills online

is program's best friend. Don't betray it --- NEVER!
 
TronFAQ
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Posts: 4,415
About that Dillinger Fellow . . .

on Monday, January, 27, 2003 9:48 PM



You know, there's something I've been wondering about Dillinger, ever since I first saw Tron.

First, he's the only character with TWO alter-egos. Namely, Sark and the MCP. Which is another aspect that really sets him apart from the others, aside from his being "bad".

But what really makes me wonder, is if Dillinger wrote the MCP, then who wrote Sark?

Dillinger again? Don't think so.

No, I think it was the .


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Trace
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on Tuesday, January, 28, 2003 12:59 AM
That's a creepy thought--the MCP writing programs!!! But a really neat concept, too!

Trigger, you are so right-- I also forgot that Dillinger came into Encom after Flynn. Makes him far more snakelike.

As for Disney, I was an admin assistant there, in corporate. My highlight was when I got to hold some of the Kodalith cels from Tron, and also seeing the cesta in the prop department. Very cool! where to buy abortion pills online order abortion pill buy abortion pills online


 
TheJediUnit
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on Tuesday, January, 28, 2003 9:28 AM
Redrain85, for some reason I don't see the MPC being an alter ego of Dillinger. Granted, he has his voice, but I don't think so. Firstly, when concured he wasn't the same guy. He was ancient looking, but wasn't David Warner. Plus, the MPC and he talked about old times playing chess like aquaintences, not like he was his own. Also, the MPC said "no one user wrote me." The MPC treated both Dillinger and Sark with tolorance, not respect. If the MPC created any program, he would have been better than Sark, I think. The MPC's relationship with them seemed like he was just using the best he could find to do what he needed, not on of his own design.

Personally.

So I just picture Sark as some kind of security program devised by Dillinger to look after his self-propelled MCP.

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"Having is not as pleasing a thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."
--Spock
 
Program BASIC
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Posts: 148
No...

on Tuesday, January, 28, 2003 9:37 AM
Programs,

I think the voice factor was just Lisberger's choice (because David Warner's voice is a top notch) but it just doesn't reflect the fictional reality in TRON's world.

It looks like MCP was 'written' very time ago by an unknown User working at the ENCOM, a Walter Gibbs's old fellow. That was the sphynx creature we sew at the very end of the battle, when Tron kicked MCP's arse. It was MCP's real facade... mirroring the User. Plain and simple.
When MCP said that quote, he was acting megalomanic ---- don't forget he's a rebel tyrant!

Sark was one of Dillinger's marginal Programs.



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is program's best friend. Don't betray it --- NEVER!
 
TheJediUnit
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Posts: 474
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on Tuesday, January, 28, 2003 11:39 AM
Rebel tyrant?

Is that a contradiction in terms? Rebels are the cure for tyrants, aren't they?

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"Having is not as pleasing a thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."
--Spock
 
Program BASIC
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Posts: 148
Oooops!

on Tuesday, January, 28, 2003 12:24 PM
Yeah, of course! Just a bad expression. I meant:

Tyrant for the Programs, rebel for the Humans/Users

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is program's best friend. Don't betray it --- NEVER!
 
TheJediUnit
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on Tuesday, January, 28, 2003 12:40 PM
he he he

...just thought it sounded funny, that's all.

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"Having is not as pleasing a thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."
--Spock
 
Trace
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on Tuesday, January, 28, 2003 3:19 PM
How DARE you refer to Sark as "marginal", PB!!!

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