dctron Wrote:I wish Kamui the best of luck and hope she comes back. I know how she feels since people here can be very hard on others. I feel that I have never been accepted here and probably never will. I was chastised for posting something that I had accomplished 22 years ago. And, then the fact that I could in a short time reach that level again made me into a bad person. I don't have bad feelings for anyone here. I want to be accepted for who I am and not try to be something I'm not. Tron has been a very important part of my life and when I first came here, I thought I had found a home. I still come back every day just to at least see what's new. Someone said it would be great to have a world champion here. Well, that part is waiting final verification, but, will I ever be accepted here. Kamui, I know that everyone here cares for you very much. I know some people can be very hard with their words at times, and I hope they learn from this and can be a little more sensitive when dealing with friends.

DC TRON,

The only issue I have ever had with you is your penchant for posting facts that you cannot prove.

You point out above that you posted about a 20 year old achievement, but I remind you that not a scrap of proof was ever offered. There is an ofifcial record on the TRON machine, and we know the person who holds it. It wasn't you.

You then put up a series of posts about being able to break the record easily. Again you were asked for proof and what we got was a series of bad video showing that you could in fact get a very high score, but it was nowehre near the record.

You did finally get a recognized second place I believe at Twin Galaxies, and I respect that. I was one of the first to say congratulations when you posted it because it was FINALLY some real proof of what you'd been boasting of for months.

It didn't correct your boasts, which were still unproved, but it did show that you were at least capable of playing on that level. However, you were saying from day 1 that you could break that record, and it took you months to come close. That to me is lying. If you can do it, do it, but if you can't, say "I plan to" and be clear on when or people will doubt you.

I really have no problem with you beyond that, and I think you need to be a little less thin skinned about it. You created the situation, I called you on it. Deal with it.

I believe I am also the only one who gave you a hard time about it, so this 'I'm not feeling accepted' crapola is bogus too. What do you want, a parade?

Let it go and join in. Nobody cares at this point. you proved most of your point, and perhaps someday you really will break the high score. I really hope you do (but the most you are gonna get is a forum posting of Congrats, the parade is impossible to pull off! )!
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DaveTRON Wrote:You know what, this response you posted from her just reminds me of what pissed me off the first time. She made a comment that was entirely uneducated and VERY anti-American. Those of us who are American took offense and called her on it. She wants to be able to say what she wants, but she's gonna run and hide when people take her to task for things that are wrong? Childish. I told her very clearly that she had certain points I agreed with, but her painting of all Americans with the same brush is what I was offended by. It was a bigoted comment and she wasn't right on that score. If she can't see that, then she's not as educated as she believes she is. I like Kamui, but this too has lessened my respect for her. Too bad. I really do hope her personal life clears up to her satisfaction, but regarding her situation here, I'll get out my tiny violin and play her a sad song.

i don't think there's any way to say this without digging my own grave, but it has to be said:

this is not the place for stuff like this. this was a "ooh, where's kamui?" thread, then i told you all about the horrid stuff that has happened, and it briefly became a "oh my god the poor girl" thread, and now it's turned into another "oh look. anti-Americanism...again" i don't even see how her post on that topic was anti-American anyway, and if it was, then like me, she didn't intend it to be.. please, please stop getting so heated up by the slightest little knock against your country.it happens to every country, all the time. there's always going to be little problems like this with every country, nobody, nowhere and nothing is perfect. also, her post there is true [to extents] unless it is really big news, like the london bombings, or the events of 9/11, then countrys stick to their own affairs. i really didn't see anything anti-american in her opinions. the way i see it, you got angry because you didn't agree.

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Prankster bit Wrote: this is not the place for stuff like this.

Actually it's the perfect place for it. I think it's just important to note that when you state something that some people may passionately disagree with (politics,religion,ethics,planet definitions) you're going to be called on it. It's best to think things through... or if you don't want to then just ignore the responses.

There has never been anything resembling a "flame war" on this site. Visit the newsgroups some time if you want to see one of those in action

The point of this topic was not a "Poor Kamui" topic, it was that we appreciate her company and haven't seen her since the London Bombing topic. We were hoping she'd come back, but still seems to have some issues. That's cool. She's always welcome back when she feels like it.




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I'm sorry your having personal issues Kamui. I hope you get them worked out. Until then the doors here will be open if you ever do decide to come back. I really hope you do. If not then it was nice getting to know you a little. It was great having another Tron artist to add to the site. Will miss seeing new artwork from you.
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DaveTRON Wrote: Have I been hard on you? Perhaps in certain places. Was I wrong? Nope. Look at it from the perspective of a fan of TRON and an owner/player of the arcade games. Someone who had never posted before comes on saying they are better than the known best player. They drop this phrase "My high score is about 4 million". they offer NO proof other than their word. The fan (Me in this case) knows that the acknowledged high score is less than that and unbroken. Doubt creeps in.

Boy to I hate jumping into these things. The perspective of this fan is a bit different. I've played the arcade game though I'm not an owner if that makes a difference. That said... to me a man's word means something till it's proven to me that it doesn't. Life is too sort to argue about such things. If he had come here and said he scored 4 billion even if it could be proven that was imposible I'd see no need to jump on him. I've played other games where I've gotten good enough that I could play in principle till my own fatigue wouldn't let me go on. I see no reason why others couldn't get that good at TRON.

Dave you claim you know the acknowledged high score and that its unbroken. What if I called you a liar and asked for proof that you had personal knowledge of every TRON game ever played? Then if two months pass before you provided that proof I cliamed it as proof you were a liar.

See... nothing good comes from going in that direction. Life (atleast to me) seems to be more enjoyable if you give people the benefit of the doubt most of the time. If it sounds too good to be true maybe it is but I've never gained anything by calling them on it. Of course feel free to ask for proof if you'd like but if it comes or it doesn't I'd think that would be the end of it.

For what it's worth, I believe DcTron. If it's proven I'm wrong for beliving him... so what? Something like this just doesn't take any skin off my back. DcTron hasn't posted anything I'd consider SPAM or anything like that and I think he should feel welcome here.

Just my 2 cents,
Carl

DaveTRON Wrote: I admire his achievement, but I'm not going to revere him.

Yes, but do you RESPECT him??!

Hehhe Sorry, I just couldn't resist.


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It's a bummer Kamui took such offense at what DaveTRON said, but since forums are areas to express opinions, she should know opinions would be expressed; especially when her well-informed thoughts were contradictory to what we actually experienced in the U.S. The news was all over the tragedy where I'm from, too; not just where Dave is. Dave's reaction was maybe a bit harsh -- but her post was a bit harsh (in a different way), as well. I wish she and Dave would've just talked it through.

Kamui wrote: "What's the point of being in a place where we are in silence? Can we really be friends if we're silent? Or if we have opinions that we want to chat about?"

I may be misinterpreting, but to me it seems like she's saying she wants a place where opinions can be expressed; as without expressions of opinions, in her words, can we really be friends? So, I'm a bit confused -- isn't that's what was happening that day before she left? She expressed her opinion. Dave expressed his. A sharing of opinions; non-silence. Yet, she chose to bale for some reason. Based on her actions, I would say it seems she's maybe more looking for a place where she can express her opinions and other's can't express their's, if they're dramatically different from her's.

Look. I don't know what makes her feel as though she's well-informed on the subject. Maybe she wrote a term paper or two; or her parent(s) are in the media; or?. That's fine. But on that day, considering the events that happened and my experience with what the news was saying, along with all the news I've seen over my life-time, she didn't seem well-informed. But that's just my opinion; I'm breaking my silence

In the whole scheme of life, this difference in opinions is so trivial. I hope she realizes that soon so she doesn't waste any more of her life in worry and sadness. It's time to talk Tron again, already!! abortion pills online abortion pill online purchase cytotec abortion

DaveTRON Wrote: Yet you do.

Only because I believe BOTH parties mean well. I've been here long enough to know you are direct Dave and that you can come on quite strong at times. Those who are newer to Tron-Sector I can see how they could take that and feel unwelcome at time. Especially when so many like myself say nothing much of the time and let them know there are other views. Him feeling unwelcome is as much my fault as yours in that way. I think I understand why you are so strong in stating what you believe but others take that as an attemt to knock them down. The English language if far from perfect and with emails and the written text where one can't hear the inflection of the voice tends to make one assume the worst.

DaveTRON Wrote: I'm not saying it's impossible. I know it's possible. What I object to is people saying they can do something and then not providing proof.

In the course of a normal conversation do you require proof of every point made? Anyone remember the game Welltris? Back around 1991 I believe I played that game for hours and it would progress to its hardest level and eventually I got to the point I could keep up with it even then. One weekend I played the game for almost one solid day and got a score 10x higher then any score I'd ever gotten before. To be honest I don't even remember what that number was. To me I had mastered the game and I don't think I've played it sense. I can't prove that claim and to be honest I have no desire to. It only means something to me anyways. If there is someone out there that could play it for 2 days strait and double my score GREAT!!! I believe had I wanted to back in the day when I was good at it I could have done that had I felt the need to. Since I have no desire to provid that proof should I be barred from ever telling that story?

DaveTRON Wrote: I consider that a boast and essentially a lie. Sorry, but I am not a person who sits still for things like that. People should not make a claim unless it can be proven. That's my belief. He acknowleged himself that it was a bit much to swallow. He knew he was on shaky ground.

It's a game. A person's reputation means far more to me that any game and I'd personally think very hard before I called anyone a liar without proof of my own in a case like this. Had he made a claim that George killed Bill and disposed of the body then I'd agree, he shouldn't say that unless he had some proof.

DaveTRON Wrote: First off, the issue is the official high score. The best player in the world has a certified score far lower than dctron's boast. I don't need to know every game ever played, I simply need to point to established facts. If dctron can do what he says, he should. Why is it wrong to expect that?

How many people play TRON with the hopes of getting the "official" high score? I suspect that most don't really care what the "official" high score is and just hope to better their personal best. To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if there are 20 people out there that have bettered the "official" high score but even if there are who's to say they have an easy way to proof it and unless there is a $10,000 cash prise out there why would most even go to the trouble? Some might not even want others knowing how much time they spend playing the game.

DaveTRON Wrote: I wouldn't need more than 30 seconds to prove it.

If tonight you went home and beat the "official" high score on your personal machine may I ask how you'd prove it in 30 seconds after the fact? Without that proof would you really keep that info to yourself?

DaveTRON Wrote: Oh my god! You've convinced me. I should just let people tell me whoppers and believe them immediately! It doesn't matter.

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Carl,

You are way over analyzing the situation. I don't expect proof for every claim made. I do expect it for the truly outragous ones. Saying you can do better than the best, is outrageous.

The reason I would only need 30 seconds to provide proof of something is due to my ability to not boast until I have achieved the goal. That is, and always will be why I HAD a problem with dctron. He made the claim before he did it. It was not a month until we saw proof, it was more than three months.

You also were not privy to the dozens of private emails i got from him trying to convince me he was that good. maybe that's why I HAD such a problem with him. he was laser focused on convincing me.

You can stop analyzing me now. You are not very good at it. This is the one thing this evening that has annoyed me.

DaveTRON Wrote: Don't think I missed how you BOLDED that first section of your post. Cheap shot?

uhhm no. i did that because:

1) people were joking around, and for what i was about to show you, the mood needed to be a lot more serious

2)it explains what has happened to Kamui

3) it draws your attention to the true facts of the matter.

now can we please, please PLEASE drop all this anti-american business. it's really starting to upset me how you people don't just drop the subject. i intended this to be a oh-my-god-that-happened-to-kamui?, but it's turned into a debate about game scores, or something.order abortion pill http://unclejohnsprojects.com/template/default.aspx?morning-after-pill-price where to buy abortion pill