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 If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?


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ChessMess
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Posts: 443
If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?

on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 11:28 AM
The subject is the question.

On a similar thought, did Sam Copy the code over to the thing around his neck or did he Move it over?

Can you copy a 'user'?


 
cirlin
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Posts: 382
RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?

on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 11:58 AM
I imagine that a User would just be stored in memory like other programs...but maybe not. It's a good question.

It's interesting that what happens when a system is turned off hasn't come up yet at all in the movies. Partly I think that is because the two systems we've seen are the type that generally don't get turned off. A businesses server, and most desktops in the building, never really get turned off, and Flynn probably left his on all the time so that it could grow an evolve when he wasn't in it. So it's not really clear what happens to programs either.

It could be that time basically stops for them, and they don't even realise the universe has been turned off . But it might be that they are reset to some earlier point too. Like if you have a word processing program, and you're writing something in it, but then turn it off, when you start it again it will be back to a blank page.



 
Sub-Odeon
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Posts: 234
RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?

on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 12:10 PM
Tron Unit Wrote:Do programs die when you turn off your computer? No.

They simply shut down. Their processes interrupted. They are frozen in time until you turn it back on. From their point of view they probably would never know they were shut down or might experience a temporary lapse like unconsciousness.

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cirlin
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Posts: 382
RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?

on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 12:15 PM
Tron Unit Wrote:Do programs die when you turn off your computer? No.

They simply shut down. Their processes interrupted. They are frozen in time until you turn it back on. From their point of view they probably would never know they were shut down or might experience a temporary lapse like unconsciousness.

Let's assume that's the case for the moment. What, then, might be the effect on a User digitized into the digital world? For instance, Walter described digitized matter as being 'suspended in the laser beam'. So if the system and laser are deactivated is the "pattern" lost? The new laser in Legacy has the cylinders that contain the persons matter, so perhaps that was a concern with the old system, but not with the new one? Hmm...I think that works for me. (good thing the power didn't go out while Flynn was trapped by the MCP )abortion pills online http://www.kvicksundscupen.se/template/default.aspx?abortion-questions cytotec abortion


 
cirlin
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Posts: 382
RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?

on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 12:26 PM
Tron Unit Wrote:A person's "matter" is converted to "energy" and stored into memory. If there was a complete power failure and the system could no longer draw a current to sustain that energy, perhaps it would be lost and the user would no longer be able to be reassembled from the laser.

Maybe...The moviefone interview with the writers talks about the carbon molecules attached to the laser:

"Well, did you guys have to spend any time figuring out how a computer program could physically materialize?

Horowitz: We did. We did talk about the idea of what is being reconstituted. There is stuff that you can see in the frame, carbon molecules that are attached to the laser, that are what you are being transferred into and then how that's being turned into energy and then it's a data."


So that sort of insinuates that the matter is stored there, but they have a tendency to be a bit vague, so I could see it being a complicate amalgam of both perhaps.

Oh, and in case any one missed it, that interview is here:
http://blog.moviefone.com/2010/12/21/tron-legacy-screenwriters-interview/abortion pills online abortion pill online purchase cytotec abortion


 
ChessMess
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Posts: 443
RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?

on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 12:30 PM
I like this line of thought. Time is 'frozen' yet they maintain their state because they carry discs which keep 'everything they do and learn' stored. So their 'minds' are like ram and their discs are like hard drives. So a user should experience the same.







 
cirlin
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Posts: 382
RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?

on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 12:34 PM
ChessMess Wrote: So their 'minds' are like ram and their discs are like hard drives.
Ooh, that's a neat analogy. I like that. I think the disc would be more like the data stored on the hard drive, the permenent data, whatever the technical term would be. real good thought though where to buy abortion pill ordering abortion pills to be shipped to house buy abortion pill online


 
typicaltronname
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Posts: 1,667
RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?

on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 12:41 PM
I couldn't help but think about the computer Flynn was in.

There wasn't any power in it all that time, until Sam flipped the switches when he enters the Arcade, unless that computer was on a separate generator, but then what generator can last 20+ years without turning off?

I guess since there wasn't too much use of power, it still could have stayed on, but I digress.

It seems despite that, the computer still moved on, and the programs were left to their own devices, so to speak.


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"Reveal your creation date or I will disassemble your code one operation at a time!"
 
typicaltronname
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Posts: 1,667
RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?

on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 12:47 PM
Tron Unit Wrote:
typicaltronname Wrote:I couldn't help but think about the computer Flynn was in.

There wasn't any power in it all that time, until Sam flipped the switches when he enters the Arcade, unless that computer was on a separate generator, but then what generator can last 20+ years without turning off?

I guess since there wasn't too much use of power, it still could have stayed on, but I digress.

It seems despite that, the computer still moved on, and the programs were left to their own devices, so to speak.



It was running. You can see from the time lapse on the screen it said something like 20 years, 8 months, 16 hours.

Thanks, Tron Unit.

I forgot about that.


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"Reveal your creation date or I will disassemble your code one operation at a time!"
 
Wugmanmax
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Posts: 131
RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?

on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 1:12 PM
In the TRON: Betrayal GN, Flynn has a rant about alternative energy sources. It's possible his secret server was running off solar or wind powered generators...

http://www.10mfh.com, a great place to read nerdy stuff!
 
ChessMess
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Posts: 443
RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?

on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 1:27 PM
There was electricity going to Flynns, otherwise nothing would have happened when Sam flipped the switch upstairs. So we know that much is true.

Being a property of Encom no doubt it was just another property that had its bills paid automatically which is very typical of large companies (includes tax, water, etc).

The computer, and the Shiva Laser, were on its own circuit box. I have NO DOUBT Flynn would not want someone shutting off the power upstairs while he was working in the lab. I also have no doubt he had backup generators just in case as well.

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PunkMaister
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Posts: 34
RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?

on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 1:49 PM
I think that being code they would just remain in storage until the power comes back on, now if the question is while you are being digitized or rematerialized chances are the user would indeed die as part of the data would inevitably be corrupted and it would not be pretty either, think of Trek transporter malfunctions to get an idea...abortion pills online http://www.kvicksundscupen.se/template/default.aspx?abortion-questions cytotec abortion


 
tomorowlandude
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Posts: 331
RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?

on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 1:53 PM
I was thinking about something similar...

Could you clone a user with backups?


 
cirlin
User

Posts: 382
RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?

on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 2:02 PM
Tron Unit Wrote:According to Einstein's law of mass-energy equivalence matter can only be transferred to another state of energy. Lose that energy and you go bye-bye. A user would be trapped forever in digital purgatory.

I think we might be talking apples and oranges a bit here as far as how the digitizing works.

For one thing, I've never thought that the matter itself was transferred into energy. If it was, that would be one heck of an explosion you'd get. Even if they could contain that amount of matter-energy conversion, it's kind of a one way trip. You're taking something with low entropy (highly ordered) and turning it into something with High entropy. It would be like taking an ice sculpture an dropping it into a pool, and then, after it had melted, trying to extract the same water molecules and refreezing them in the shape of the sculpture again.



 
cirlin
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Posts: 382
RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?

on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 2:02 PM
Also, if the system did work where turned a person completely into energy, then it wouldn't really matter what energy they used to put you back together again as long as you had the initial data. You could turn it off as long as you wanted and then just somehow use a bunch of energy to recreate the matter (which would be orders of magnitude more complicated and power intensive naturally).

So with that in mind I've come to a couple of conclusions as to how I imagine it works. In the first movie, that matter is disassembled into individual molecules and "held in the beam" probably by some sort of magnetic "bottle". In the new movie, with the more advanced laser, it stores the molecules in the cylinders around the base of the laser.

I've also thought that Flynn may have filled the cylinders with extra matter of some kind. he seemed to have been planning to bring an ISO out into the real world at some point, so I wonder if he planned ahead for that and provided the materials necessary.

Anyway, it’s all pseudoscience, so there’s always going to be a point where the logic starts to unravel. It is fun to figure out how far you can push it though
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typicaltronname
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Posts: 1,667
RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?

on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 2:09 PM
tomorowlandude Wrote:I was thinking about something similar...

Could you clone a user with backups?

Like said above, the person is digitized. So, theoretically, you could.

Right click on him and click on "copy"

Like I mentioned before in another post, Users must be a great deal of Gigabytes, but it's very possible that Users don't take up a lot of space.

As an example, computer won't allow something that's 4 Gigabytes, when all it has is 2 Gigabytes of memory, and If a User is bigger than that, it would reject the User.

Back then, I don't even think Gigabytes even existed. In '84 an apple computer had 128 kb's of memory.

Flynn had the most advanced computer for the 80's

EDIT: This off topic, but I just found out that some German engineer in the 30's was named Zuse.

Developed a calculator that never worked.





"Reveal your creation date or I will disassemble your code one operation at a time!"
 
lurkinghorror
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Posts: 803
RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?

on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 2:21 PM
ChessMess Wrote:
Can you copy a 'user'?

That was the story in Tron: The Ghost in the Machine.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tron:_The_Ghost_in_the_Machine



 
typicaltronname
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Posts: 1,667
RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?

on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 2:27 PM
Interesting how there was Tron Legacy code in that series.

Despite making Tron 2.0 an alternate reality, the makers of Tron: Legacy borrowed some aspects of Tron 2.0



"Reveal your creation date or I will disassemble your code one operation at a time!"
 
lurkinghorror
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Posts: 803
RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?

on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 2:45 PM
Tron Unit Wrote:I always shrugged off Tron 2.0 as a cheesy attempt to cash in on the franchise. I hated the costumes and yet it bears more resemblance to Tron Legacy than I would have expected.

In what ways?


 
DarthMeow504
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Posts: 134
RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?

on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 3:19 PM
Tron Unit Wrote:The costumes are closer to Legacy than the original Tron. Jet Bradley/Sam Flynn, Mercury/Quorra, Thorne/Clu. Never played the game though, I just didn't like the design and thought it looked like a cheap spin-off based on the original Tron.

You'd be wrong. It was very well done and takes the visual design language of the original film to it's logical fulfillment with modern technology, and the results are spectacularly breathtaking. In many ways it was a more faithful sequel than Legacy.

And where you get that Thorne looks anything like CLU I can't imagine. Thorne is bulky and green, CLUE is sleek and orange/red.



 
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