Here's a thought... What about a plot line involving Sam being pursued by law enforcement as a result of his most recent "annual prank" on ENCOM? Perhaps such a thing could keep Sam from taking his dads position in the company? And before you say "ENCOM os12 was only on the Internet for less than a minute!" (I see you there. I know that's exactly what you were about to do.) remember, it was suggested that this isn't the first prank that Sam has pulled, and they could easily bring up a past one that was more damaging. abortion pills online abortion questions cytotec abortion

FlynnOne Wrote: Vaporware Wrote: the Kevin Flynn that Sam de-fragments would also be part CLU - sort of a fusion of the two.. Although it might not be possible to know which is which I'm liking this line of thought. It would be the most logical outcome of the reintegration, and if done well from a writing perspective it could provide a very strong plot point to underscore the film. It would be essentially the classic story of a man who's coming to terms with how he's been irrevocably changed by reality and circumstance, but, infused into a new setting where reality and circumstance transcend the boundaries of what's been classically seen as even "possible" in this world. And, the stakes could involve essentially the fate of the world. But who would really want to see a movie where the original KF becomes the bad guy - now that his Grid Persona is well-established? Good point. No one would. And, my opinion, ultimately that approach would not work. Because while Bridges could no doubt pull off that sort of character dichotomy from an acting standpoint, because he's that gifted as an actor,......do we really need yet another film where the save-the-world protagonist falls to darkness and the world suffers even more because of it? No. Especially not Tron, where Kevin Flynn is the heart and soul of the film and one of the most iconic good-guy characters around, especially after his sacrifice in 'Legacy'. My opinion -- if something works, don't break it. Instead, wouldn't it be more powerful to see the save-the-world protagonist facing, struggling with and coming to terms with the greatest, scariest, most otherworldly darkness he's ever known, the aspects of himself he's never before known existed, never before faced? Meaning, the aspects of himself that eventually became Clu, with which he's now permanently fused thanks to his own creation - the Grid. I can see Bridges not only pulling that off but taking it to Oscar-winning levels easily, given the right plot and script, because he's very capable of it. And that's the kind of inner struggle we all can relate to, even if it's in a fantasy/sci-fi setting. To see it unfold in a Tron setting would be very powerful. Evolution, of sorts.

In a post I made a long time ago, I had mentioned the idea of a fused KF and CLU as one persona. Sort of like Dragonball Z where two people become one personality. However, the difference would be it will have CLU's youthful body and circuitry (his uniform) while the face is actually the real KF.

Imagine that. There IS a way to make that happen, but it relates to the one idea I had in mind for a story that takes place between Legacy and the third chapter.

tomorowlandude Wrote: LWSrocks2 Wrote:Here's a thought... What about a plot line involving Sam being pursued by law enforcement as a result of his most recent "annual prank" on ENCOM? Perhaps such a thing could keep Sam from taking his dads position in the company? And before you say "ENCOM os12 was only on the Internet for less than a minute!" (I see you there. I know that's exactly what you were about to do.) remember, it was suggested that this isn't the first prank that Sam has pulled, and they could easily bring up a past one that was more damaging. (expanding on that) How about a future prank. Then when the police chase him (with quorra. The movie needs quorra), he runs to the arcade, plugs in his necklace, and goes in the grid. But, one or two officers follow him in. The remaining officers end up confiscating the laser. Sam has to find out how to trigger Alan's pager.

That's interesting, but I was hoping that rather than Flynn's grid, the next movie would be set on ENCOM's grid. How else would Dillinger get involved? Not to mention, I'd like to see the environment redesigned for the next film. Something a little more retro, but also new at the same time. If anything, what about just minor tweaks? Maybe the black part of the grid becomes white? Maybe the blue part of the grid becomes red? Here's my idea for the next movie...

First, the obligatory real-world sequence, of course. Quorra has been exposed to the beauty of the real world. She doesn't act appropriately to social situations yet, but she's learning. It's only when she finds out about all of the horrible things on Earth, like the holocaust, murderers, etc. that she begs Sam to take her back to the grid. Sam, himself, has a reason to return- he saved the data from his dad's disk onto his necklace. If he can go back, he can load it up and his dad will be saved- the problem is, the explosion caused by the reintegration sequence ended up destroying most of the grid. Only a few survivors remain.

Weeks go by, and Quorra grows more depressed and homesick every day. All the while, Sam has taken his position as CEO of ENCOM, and he's being guided by Alan and his friend. I don't remember the guy's name, but he's supposedly Ram's user. Anyways, Sam discovers he can upload his dad onto the ENCOM system, and go in to meet him when he discovers that the Shiva laser is still AT ENCOM. Of course, it would be hard to get there and bypassing security, so he needs to wait.

Meanwhile, he tells Alan about what he found, and explains his dilemma. Alan, desperate to find out for himself if Sam is telling the truth, convinces his ex-wife Lora to let them use the Shiva laser. So Sam grabs Quorra and brings her with him. BAM! All of them end up in the grid. Lora and Alan are captivated, and amazed by what they're seeing. A group of security programs step forward and tell them to wait until they can ensure identities. But none of them have Identity Disks, so they are taken into a Recognizer and removed from the area.

Sam knows this is a bad situation from prior experience, but everyone else (but Quorra, who is worried) is confused. But when they land, they are not taken to the grid. But just a seemingly normal room where they are asked to sit down. A security program removes her helmet, and greets them. Everyone wonders why they are here and what's about to happen, and the girl assures them that they are being protected from an ongoing war between the Users and the Programs.

They discover that ENCOM has been secretly using the Shiva laser to digitize humans for years, and the system had already had many users in there. Sam then makes an attempt to escape, because he wants to find his dad- who he KNOWS for a fact is in the system, since he inserted the memory necklace into the machine before being digitized. So, he and the others coordinate a ballsy escape plan and leave, where they steal the Identity Disks of a group of unsuspecting programs.

They are caught and stopped by a security program shortly after. He takes the disc off of Sam's back, then off of Quorra's back, then off of Lora's back, and then off of Alan's back- but then he stops. He turns Alan around, and he pulls his own helmet off... revealing TRON.

Alan gets choked up seeing Tron, and Tron is bewildered. Soon, it gets to be too much for Alan. He decides he needs to leave. All of these huge discoveries hitting him one after another is too much for him to handle. So he returns to the real world, while Lora decides to stay. Tron recognizes Lora as resembling Yori, but Lora is considerably older, so Tron doesn't think much of it.

But Tron dismisses their law-breaking since he feels a connection to them, sort of a "friends of my user are friends of mine!" kind of thing. Instead, he gets them suits, legitimate discs, and batons for when they might be needed. They drive their lightcycles around until they see a group of red-circuited programs causing trouble. And of course, enter key fight sequence. Sam just sort of plays it by ear, similar to what he did in the Legacy disk battles. Tron instructs Lora to hide, while Quorra breaks out a light katana. The fight rages on! Sam doesn't end up doing much damage, while Quorra and Tron defeat the entire group of red-suits- except for one, who cowardly dashes away on his LC. The gang pursues him to a large lightcycle arena, where a key lightcycle sequence begins. The blue-suits easily best him, because he was outnumbered.

As red-suit flies off of his shattered lightcycle, his helmet comes off- revealing Dillinger Jr. Tron draws his disk and aims, but not before a recognizer swoops him up and carries him off into the distance. Sam recognizes him, but they don't have any time to reflect on what just happened, because they need to turn back and get Lora. So they do. Tron, however, says goodbye. He's got a job to do. He's just been told that he needs to get a Recognizer and catch an unregistered program (i.e., a program with no disc) a few sectors away.

So Sam, Lora, and Quorra say goodbye and decide to look around the area. A group of security programs stop the group, and one reveals themselves to be the same girl from before. She informs them that in escaping, they've violated a law and have been sentenced to grid games. Sam tries to run, Lora stands there, confused, and Quorra looks worried but mostly calm. They are taken via Recognizer to the grid, where another key disc battle sequence begins. But this time, it's different.

Rather than what you saw in Legacy, these disc battles work differently. Instead you get two teams- red, and blue, each comprised of 15 combatants, thrown into a deadly free-for-all with randomized walls and other obstacles. During the fight, Lora gets gravely injured and cannot be saved. The fight continues on, and Sam and Quorra are the last survivors. In a suprise twist, the announcers reveal that as the final part, Sam and Quorra must fight each-other. Sam knows he going to lose, because not only is he horrible at fighting, but he would not be able to bring himself to harm Quorra. Before they are separated, Sam pulls Quorra close to him, kisses her, and says "I love you."

She walks away confused, and Sam walks away depressed. When the fight begins, Sam just removes his disk and drops it on the floor, putting his hands up in surrender. Quorra starts to cry, because she knows she has to kill him. She grabs her disc, closes her eyes, and raises it, crying harder... and then she throws it. But TRON lands, deflecting Quorra's disc, saving the day. A different-looking Grid Runner with four seats storms into the arena, and Tron guides Sam and Quorra to it.

Tron is in the front passengers seat, Sam and Quorra are in the back. Sam asks who is driving, and then a familiar face turns and looks at them. It's none other than Kevin Flynn. Sam and Quorra are surprised but they have no time to get emotional. The grid runner peels out and leaves the arena, zooming down the information highway. As they drive they see a fight between two programs, one with white circuitry, one with blue. "A user." Tron notes. Tron directs them to a secret safe haven for users, that strongly resembles the End of Line club. There, they stop.

Kevin, Sam, and Quorra reunite once again, but Kevin explains to them that Sam saved the disk onto the memory neclace at the same moment he and Clu reintigrated, meaning Clu is out there, looking for him.

*Sigh* since I don't have the time right now to write the rest of this, I'll just tell you pretty much what happens next. Kevin, Sam, Quorra, and Tron set out to defeat Clu, but on the way discover a bigger threat. Sarc, Dillinger Jr.s program, is being told by Dillinger Jr. to kill Sam. Dillinger Sr. explained to Dillinger Jr. that Sam is most likely inside the system because he found out what Flynn did years ago when he discovered that ENCOM was digitizing people. Thus, he figured Sam would try and follow in his dad's footsteps- so he had always told Dillinger Jr. to make sure if his program, Sarc, ever discovered Users in the system, that if any one of them was Sam, that Sam should be killed as revenge against Flynn.

Yeah. You know where this goes. I'll edit later to finish the rest.

About Sam.
I've watched Legacy at least five times (my daughter loves it). I really don't think the notion that he was "poor" at Disc Wars is correct.

He was initially confused and not comfortable with the weaponry and rules of the game. He was reluctant to fight the 1st opponent, and struggles adjusting until he realized that he was going to be killed. Then he gets clever.

In battle two, he slides and deflects his opponent's *own* disc back to derrez him. That was a pretty damn cool move and it was the pure "improvisation" that you expect from a User. It shows that Sam is a quick-study.

In his battle with Rinzler, it's again Sam's lack of knowledge of the rules (gravity reversal) that puts him at the disadvantage. He's only got one disc and clearly lacks the acrobatic hand-to-hand fighting that Rinzler displays. It's Rinzler's viciousness and 11 cycles of skill that defeats Sam.

At the EOL Club, Sam is also not doing too bad. It's just too-many elite Black Guard against one/two heroes. Quorra isn't hurt because Sam screwed up or wasn't holding up his end of the fight - they were both overwhelmed.

The final fight against the sentries would have been good to see as a culmination of Sam's skill, but I suspect it would have been similar to his previous fights, but a bit less sloppy and infused with more "purpose"

This wouldn't make Sam as good as Tron in a sequel, but but there's no need to play him off as unskilled.order abortion pill abortion pill buy online where to buy abortion pill

AriesT Wrote:I like the idea of the new disk battles. This could be a fantastic action sequence. Though in my opinion 5 on 5 is enough. Standard Counter-Strike tournament size. However, I am not sure if the part after the opening is good and your structure is way to Legacy-like. For what I experienced, people do not want to see the same movie twice. ^^ (Depends on the audience you want to capture for the movie) The "ENCOM includes people for several years" idea bugs me. The shiva laser needs too much energy to get 5 people into the grid on the same time. Do not make the unrealistic thing too unrealistic. The users vs. programs idea might be a great twist if told and presented in a good and quite realistic way. TRON should have a great heroic introduction into the movie, since he (and Kevin) sacrificed himself for Sam and Quorra. He does not deserve a simple scene like "I captured you, but hey, I am TRON! Whee!" After watching Legacy, Sam is not a bad player anymore. He vanished 4 guards without a scratch (the sequence which was not filmed anymore). So he should have a major part in the disc battle sequence. However, I like your idea having the 3 beloved characters in one team. Think about Lora and Alan are to old to handle such battles and might not take part. I am on your side though, I want to see a cool light cycle race again. The lightcycle race should not follow directly after the disc battles but should come later. Get Alan and Lora out, let Sam and Quorra catch the fragments from his father, let him restore Kevin... and then show the next grid game (inventing a new one could be essentional for the film). How about an obstacle course? Maybe with a time component? Lets say if the player does not pass a certain part of this course, the floor disappears and he gets derezzed. Maybe let the winner team of the new team disc battle compete in this game. Would be mean and exactly what you can expect to be mean in a TRON movie.

Yeah, 5 on 5 is probably enough.

Also, yes, I did notice while reading it after having written it that it was very Legacy-like. What with the Recognizer capture and everything? I tried my best to avoid that, but oh well.

I was thinking, well- maybe the Shiva laser showcased in the FIRST movie didn't have enough energy to transport 5 people at the same time, but perhaps 30 years later there have been some technological advancements? Also, they weren't all digitized at the same time if that's how you understood it- it was kind of a one by one thing.

And you're totally right about the Tron introduction thing. It should be Yori that does what Tron did in my post, and Tron can be introduced in the middle of the Sam/Quorra disc battle when he slams down and deflects Quorra's disc.

Also, I don't think the lightcycle race I described should be the big LC spectacle of the movie, as I also think there should be multiple LC sequences. 2 or 3 is fine, but Legacy left me wanting much more. I think a Sam vs Sarc lightcycle battle would be amazing.

I like your idea about the obstacle course though.

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I can't imagine that Sam could have chosen which parts of the Grid he was copying. If so, how could be have been sure to capture the correct parts. I figured that he was making a full-backup. However, that is just an assumption...

Recall that KF, CLU and TRON worked together to build a free an open system but were actually building the game arena when the ISOs manifested. Also... KF built his 2nd gen lightcycle for "the games."

I would think that Sam could have seen the original (non-lethal) fun in the games as they were envisioned when KFlynn created the Grid.


Another thought has been nagging at me. We know that the director was an architect. The sets and design are amazing. Architects have a design and a motif in mind when they create. Things are where they for a reason, shapes and patterns are intended to evoke things in the human mind. Intent and careful design is key for an architect. So....

Am I imagining things, or do we see a lot of symbols with the number three (3)? Sam's helmet, the recognizer floor, and a few other spots. #3 is present in many places, I started to wonder if the Legacy Grid was in fact NOT the second grid, but perhaps a third Grid??

That might come off as a little too much like Matrix 2 (and eight previous Zions), but it's an interesting notion when kicking around ideas for a Sequel...

Kat Wrote:The interesting thing about that is that Encom has been developing games since, right? So what if we is on that Grid is based on those games? It would be pretty unfamiliar to the heroes, who would need to master that. (the only problem might be the change in games that would make it more difficult to integrate since games these days are much more realistic and tend to be RPG-like. It's a far cry from lightcycles or Mario Bros. to things like Call of Duty, and I'm not sure how you'd portray that from the inside since it's so true to real life already.)

I'm not sure they have been making games. Companies that make Operating systems tend to stay out of the game arena - instead paying others to develop games and then they slap their own name on it... course I really only have Microsoft to compare to...

Your point about the nature of modern games is a good one. It's been nagging at me. How would such a thing translate to a grid world...? Probably not at all. It misses the point that a computer world is based on the fact that it's inside a computer and not an intentional simulation.

//Digression...
We all recall that Tron was an early 80s movie - back when many of us would beg quarters from our parents to plunk into Pac Man, Defender, Asteroids, Galaga... and Midway's Tron. The whole thing was fundamentally rooted in the physical group experience. An arcade was somewhere you went, you played with friends watching, and when you lost and were broke, you couldn't play anymore. Games nowdays are linked, but aside from one friend sharing your console, folks play alone in a dark room - maybe linked up with buddies on the net - but almost never in a public place cheering you on. I guess people have WII parties, but we don't see anything that resembles those old arcade experiences anymore. It's simply not a comparable experience and wouldn't mean much to many people.

Maybe it's a sign that I'm getting old, but I haven't even seen a real arcade in the last 10+ years - maybe 15... do those things even exist anymore? If they do, what are the games even like? FPS, RPG, maybe Mortal Kombat type fighting games. Those don't translate. We've still got pinball, though...

The original Tron was perfect because it jacked right into the group experience. It resonated with us because those of us who saw it back in the 80s, recognized it as something we all wondered about when we played those games. That kind of experience doesn't resonate with young folks today.
//digression

So... I do not think that modern games translate and I don't think that ENCOM in the tron world survived by making video games for 30 years. ENCOM went into the OS business and probably dominated much like Microsoft does now. They probably run a world-of-warcraft type game. Maybe even a "World of Tron" game... especially when Sam Flynn took over.

So.. consider that sort of idea... and mesh it with the original Teaser Trailer for Tron Legacy... a light cycle rider defeated by a Dillinger-looking guy. The rider says "okay, you win.. it's just a game" and the Dillinger clone says "Not Anymore" before using his disc...

Now I think this is a silly idea for a movie... imagine that ENCOM launched a "World of Tron" game and were working on a way to make it a virtual reality experience.

VR for players of World of Tron... but someone experiments via the Shiva Laser... players get sucked into the game for real and die for real. Main characters investigate the VR Tron world to find out what happened...

That might resonate more with today's movie-going demographic. but I'm not sure I like it. It seems like it misses the point of the original movie.

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Saw it. very good. very "individual" story. Worth the time to watch it.
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Kat Wrote: Vaporware Wrote:I see the biggest issue to a plot set on another mainframe to be the loss of familiar hardware. The reason that there Tanks, Disc Wars, Recognizers, and Light Cycles in the ENCOM mainframe was because ENCOM developed and stored those games on that mainframe. Those things were designed by Users but were appropriated by the MCP for it's own purposes. Cycles, Discs, Tanks, and Recognizers exist in Flynn's Grid because he put them there. Now that ENCOM is the Apple/Microsoft of the Tron world/Center City, what are you going to find on that Mainframe? Accounting Software? Minesweeper? I'm sure that there will be something, but logically, nothing would look anything like the evolved lightcycles and recognizers of the 2nd film. Now *maybe* that can be gotten-around if part of the new plot involves Sam himself recreating Flynn's hardware for "new" ENCOM games or loading his backup chip into the ENCOM mainframe in order to move those items of code into a new series of ENCOM Tron Games. The interesting thing about that is that Encom has been developing games since, right? So what if we is on that Grid is based on those games? It would be pretty unfamiliar to the heroes, who would need to master that. (the only problem might be the change in games that would make it more difficult to integrate since games these days are much more realistic and tend to be RPG-like. It's a far cry from lightcycles or Mario Bros. to things like Call of Duty, and I'm not sure how you'd portray that from the inside since it's so true to real life already.) Vaporware Wrote: Am I imagining things, or do we see a lot of symbols with the number three (3)? Sam's helmet, the recognizer floor, and a few other spots. #3 is present in many places, I started to wonder if the Legacy Grid was in fact NOT the second grid, but perhaps a third Grid?? Or it could simply be that 3 is his favorite number. The number 3 also appears quite frequently in mythology and religion, so why not continue the trend? Or we could go all conspiracy-theory-like and say that's our proof that they were planning on making a 3rd movie. Or...

(expanding on the "modern grid games" thing)

This intrigues me. I always applauded the Tron franchise for such innovative weapons, like the Identity Disks and Lightcycles- but I still always wondered what it would be like if there were guns, like, light-blasters that are used for grid games or maybe just combat. That could tie into your idea, you know? Like, Sam ends up on the ENCOM grid where they house the newer games, and we see Sam running through the world of a futuristic cyber shooter. Maybe a platformer type grid game, similar to the "obstacle course" suggested by Vaporware. I kind of want to see Sam or Tron or pretty much any character doing a cool parkour chase scene, Anon-style thing through Tron City. Something to consider.

And, tanks.

Motherfreaking TANKS.
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Vaporware Wrote:Saw it. very good. very "individual" story. Worth the time to watch it.

I agree. Beautiful film. This movie reminded me of Flynn and CLU which I see some semblance of. Disney should learn a thing or two from MOON, fire the LOST boys, and hire Duncan Jones along with Kozinski. It would be very awesome if Neil Blomkamp, Kozinski and Duncan Jones all collaborated on Tron 3. Those guys are the sci-fi visionaries, f--k Michael Bay.