LWSrocks2 User
 Posts: 416 | Motion Capture Tron Suits on Sunday, June, 19, 2011 10:54 PM
I think that Tron 3 should use motion capture CGI for their suits, and here's why. For those of you unfamiliar with the concept of Motion Capture Costumes, let me briefly explain- instead of the actor wearing an actual suit, they wear sensors on their clothing. Then, the CGI dept. draws over it with a CGI suit. One example of this, is Hal Jordan's "Green Lantern" outfit in the new Green Lantern movie. This, and the other suits, were done this way.
1. More Possibilities
You know how in Tron, the circuits were not solid, they flickered and blinked. They were more alive. The suits in Legacy are actual glowing suits, so this effect is difficult to reproduce. With Motion Capture Suits, it's quite easy. In fact, in Green Lantern, there is a pattern on Hal's (and other ones) suit that slightly resembles circuitry, and this effect is- although you need to really focus on the costume to tell- at work here. Also, with this system, it's easier to have more circuitry, like the original suits. It would have been very complex to produce those patterns in one of these suits. With motion capture, it's even easier than it was for the original movie's designers.
2. Better Acting
In an interview with Olivia Wilde, when asked about the suit, she responded that "it felt like wearing a wet swimsuit thats a size too small, and then another one that's two sizes smaller on the outside." (I'm paraphrasing here.) This must make it incredibly difficult to do the heavy athletics involved, and uncomfortable. Such discomfort could be very distracting, and could make for less believable performances. If you ask me, this could be why so many people here complain about Hedlund's acting skills. I hear he did very well in the drama film "Country Strong".
3. Cheaper
The costumes in Legacy were costly and difficult to produce. Motion Capture could potentially reduce the cost of the suits, and would DRASTICALLY reduce the amount of effort required, all while producing a better (if done right) result.
So what do you think?
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IluthraDanar User
 Posts: 1,178 | RE: Motion Capture Tron Suits on Sunday, June, 19, 2011 11:23 PM
Also the actors, barring the dancer g string, had worn the old suits easier I believe, while the new suits were very hot and even the disks had to be cooled down between takes.
I think the original film was better in projecting the idea that those were circuits with power flowing through them, and not just lit up suits.
Forget it, Mr High and Mighty Master Control. You aren't making me talk.
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Syst3mAdm1nCLU User
 Posts: 6 | RE: Motion Capture Tron Suits on Monday, June, 20, 2011 12:05 PM
IluthraDanar Wrote:I think the original film was better in projecting the idea that those were circuits with power flowing through them, and not just lit up suits. |
I have to agree and I thought the exact same thing when I saw the new suits. I didn't really get the feel or see the look that those were circuits and perhaps the circuits extended instead to their skin rather than the suits they wear over them. In the new film it looks more like shinny outlining of their suits instead.
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Kaisergrendel User
![]() Posts: 298 | RE: Motion Capture Tron Suits on Monday, June, 20, 2011 12:13 PM
Hello! This is my first post, and I think that's a terrible idea.
1. I loved the fact that the suits themselves interacted with their environment lighting-wise, shone on the faces of the actors wearing them, etc. Besides the obvious, the black areas also absorbed and occluded light. You may not consciously perceive it but it makes all the difference.
The light strips on the suits were altered in post not just to increase their brightness, but make them flicker. It may not be the great flashy light effects that you'd expect from watching Tron 1, but I think it was tastefully subtle. That said, I don't think it's beyond their ability to toy with the lighting on practical suits in post should the occasion call for it, much like they did with the first movie.
2. I have a hard time believing practical suits are physically confining by default, considering the dexterity Anis Cheurfa displayed as Rinzler. Sure, some suits were more restrictive than others, in particular the siren suits, but if they're going to design more, I'm sure they'll they'll have the issues from the first movie planted firmly in the back of their minds while doing so. Cate Blanchett could act in full Victorian corset and garb - uncomfortable costumes are part of an actor's job. I liked Hedlund's performance though I can see immediately that his portrayal of Sam was consistent throughout the entire film - whether or not he was wearing a suit. If Hedlund's role lacked any of his usual brilliance, I hardly think the suit was to blame. AGAIN, I don't think Hedlund himself was to blame, rather the script and perhaps inexperienced direction from Kosinsky.
3. Cheaper, maybe, but they've already developed a method to design and fabricate these suits, so a large portion of your R&D cost is already behind them. Not to mention that without exception I haven't seen a CGI body done that could rival the visceral believability (and therefore emotional gravitas) of practical suits - that's including the Na'vi (Avatar), clone troopers(star wars), Benjamin Button, Iron Man and Hal Jordan (Green Lantern).
Considering the ongoing improvements in costume and battery design, though the team suffered immensely through their implementation, I don't believe they couldn't improve the suits the second time round, comfort and cost-wise. While I am a fan of the choice they made to use a minimalist form of circuitry, I believe they'll be able to construct more intricate designs as they gather more experience, again, if the occasion calls for it.
Part of the charm of Tron (both 1 and 2) is the undeniable, living reality inhabiting a virtual environment. The fact that Tron 2 featured more practical (and/or more sophisticated CG) elements only makes this more frighteningly immersive. I strongly believe CG suits would detract a great deal from the spirit of Tron.on line abortion pill misoprostol dose abortion medical abortion pill online
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mastercilinder User
 Posts: 399 | RE: Motion Capture Tron Suits on Monday, June, 20, 2011 1:09 PM
It's a not a terrible idea, but if it looks anything like the way it did in Green Lantern, it would ruin the whole movie. That floating head look is just painful.
We can all learn from GL that the suit was horrible. An actors clothes need to have tangebility, otherwise TR3N will be the floating head movie. (imagine having to do that for every actor, it would get expensive fast)
What they could do is just make suits with greenscreen-able circuitry on it and just apply lights in post. Then it would be relatively easy to get that fluxing circuitry from the original and the actors wouldn't look like floating heads.
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TRON.dll User
 Posts: 4,349 | RE: Motion Capture Tron Suits on Monday, June, 20, 2011 2:53 PM
LWSrocks2 Wrote:One example of this, is Hal Jordan's "Green Lantern" outfit in the new Green Lantern movie. This, and the other suits, were done this way. |
The trailer for that movie looked so bad visually that I couldn't bring myself to watch the whole thing.
1. More Possibilities
You know how in Tron, the circuits were not solid, they flickered and blinked. They were more alive. The suits in Legacy are actual glowing suits, so this effect is difficult to reproduce. With Motion Capture Suits, it's quite easy. In fact, in Green Lantern, there is a pattern on Hal's (and other ones) suit that slightly resembles circuitry, and this effect is- although you need to really focus on the costume to tell- at work here. Also, with this system, it's easier to have more circuitry, like the original suits. It would have been very complex to produce those patterns in one of these suits. With motion capture, it's even easier than it was for the original movie's designers. |
It's possible to make a real light flicker, even if it's the EL tape used for the Tron Legacy costumes. Also, part of the idea with the costumes was to design them so that the actors themselves could be used as dynamic lighting sources, which I think worked really well in the end and looked freaking amazing. Using the method you're suggesting would make it look like, well, Green Lantern, and no franchise deserves that.
2. Better Acting
In an interview with Olivia Wilde, when asked about the suit, she responded that "it felt like wearing a wet swimsuit thats a size too small, and then another one that's two sizes smaller on the outside." (I'm paraphrasing here.) This must make it incredibly difficult to do the heavy athletics involved, and uncomfortable. Such discomfort could be very distracting, and could make for less believable performances. If you ask me, this could be why so many people here complain about Hedlund's acting skills. I hear he did very well in the drama film "Country Strong". |
A good actor can make discomforts in wardrobe work in their favor, and result in a better performance overall. Personally, I didn't see anything wrong with Hedlund's (or any of the other actors' for that matter) performance in Tron Legacy, and I have no idea what anyone is complaining about. Olivia Wilde didn't seem to be affected by the tightness of her costume at all throughout the course of the movie.
3. Cheaper
The costumes in Legacy were costly and difficult to produce. Motion Capture could potentially reduce the cost of the suits, and would DRASTICALLY reduce the amount of effort required, all while producing a better (if done right) result. |
True, but cheap alternatives generally end up not looking even half as good as a difficult and expensive solution that a ton of effort is required for.
Also, motion capture was used in several scenes in Tron Legacy, including Clu jumping onto his lightcycle in the lightcycle battle and Rinzler doing some mad slo-mo parkour in the discwars scene.order abortion pill http://unclejohnsprojects.com/template/default.aspx?morning-after-pill-price where to buy abortion pill
       
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IluthraDanar User
 Posts: 1,178 | RE: Motion Capture Tron Suits on Monday, June, 20, 2011 8:53 PM
mastercilinder Wrote:It's a not a terrible idea, but if it looks anything like the way it did in Green Lantern, it would ruin the whole movie. That floating head look is just painful.
We can all learn from GL that the suit was horrible. An actors clothes need to have tangebility, otherwise TR3N will be the floating head movie. (imagine having to do that for every actor, it would get expensive fast)
What they could do is just make suits with greenscreen-able circuitry on it and just apply lights in post. Then it would be relatively easy to get that fluxing circuitry from the original and the actors wouldn't look like floating heads. |
I just read about that today. Why use a CGI suit? Never heard of that before.
Forget it, Mr High and Mighty Master Control. You aren't making me talk.
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LWSrocks2 User
 Posts: 416 | RE: Motion Capture Tron Suits on Monday, June, 20, 2011 9:58 PM
I have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to the aforementioned "floating head" effect. I thought that Green Lantern wasn't perfect visually, but I still thought it was awesome. Tron.ddl, I thought it was a great movie, actually. Seeing the trailer on a computer screen is much different from the theater effect. I wouldn't want to watch it online, or on DVD even... Just like with Legacy and Avatar. It's all about the theater experience.
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Kaisergrendel User
![]() Posts: 298 | RE: Motion Capture Tron Suits on Tuesday, June, 21, 2011 1:13 AM
LWSrocks2 Wrote:I have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to the aforementioned "floating head" effect. I thought that Green Lantern wasn't perfect visually, but I still thought it was awesome. Tron.ddl, I thought it was a great movie, actually. |
I saw the floating head affect both on Green Lantern and Benjamin Button. The "head" just didn't seem to respond realistically to the movement of the rest of the body. You could characterize it as a lag or a inconsistency in the flexibility, or the improper visual integration of the head-torso joint. It made me appreciate how much work they put into CLU to integrate a CG head onto a real body.
LWSrocks2 Wrote:Seeing the trailer on a computer screen is much different from the theater effect. I wouldn't want to watch it online, or on DVD even... Just like with Legacy and Avatar. It's all about the theater experience. |
That's too bad for you, since a large portion of movie consumption is shifting towards home viewing. With 3D and 48 fps also on the rise, it's not a good time to be a theatre traditionalist anymore. I personally have a home theatre and while I still prefer to watch the biggest movies at home, I'd expect it to look just as good when I get it on bluray later on.
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mastercilinder User
 Posts: 399 | RE: Motion Capture Tron Suits on Wednesday, June, 22, 2011 12:02 AM
LWSrocks2 Wrote:I have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to the aforementioned "floating head" effect. I thought that Green Lantern wasn't perfect visually, but I still thought it was awesome. Tron.ddl, I thought it was a great movie, actually. Seeing the trailer on a computer screen is much different from the theater effect. I wouldn't want to watch it online, or on DVD even... Just like with Legacy and Avatar. It's all about the theater experience. |
It's just sort of a nickname for that odd look that the human faces attached to CGI suits has. GL was just an example. I couldn't think of any other examples.abortion pills online abortion pill online purchase cytotec abortion
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HooDooMan User
 Posts: 585 | RE: Motion Capture Tron Suits on Wednesday, June, 22, 2011 12:08 AM
I read an interview recently with Eric Barba, the VFX supervisor at Digital Domain who oversaw the visual effects for TRON: Legacy, and I seem to remember him addressing the issue of "why didn't you just add the lighting effects in post?" question. If I recall correctly, he explained that since the movie was filmed in 3D, adding the lighting effects in post-production would be EXCEEDINGLY difficult (my emphasis) and would require much more time than the 18 month window they had to complete the film. I think that was a large part of why they used practical lighting techniques.
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tron85 User
 Posts: 53 | RE: Motion Capture Tron Suits on Wednesday, June, 22, 2011 8:16 AM
[...]Olivia Wilde[...]wet swimsuit thats a size too small[...]
I like this picture. Should be expanded in TR3N!^^
But yeah, I was not excited about the new costumes. They just look...boring.
Would it be too expensive to return to traditional Tron glowing effects?
Can't imagine it to be difficult. Instead of cutting out each damn frame by hand, they could do it in assistance of computers. I say 'assistance', because I still believe that the noticeable effort put into traditional ways of production is evident.
Comparing a drawn movie to an computer animated movie, I've always liked to think about the animators: sitting in front of a piece of paper, drawing each line by themselfs, tongue in their bite-angle. It adds a lot of emotion to films.
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nerdgirl1122 User
![]() Posts: 121 | RE: Motion Capture Tron Suits on Wednesday, June, 22, 2011 4:29 PM
Sure, this is an okay idea in writing, and I havent seen green lantern so idk if it IS a good idea. But Lws, the 3rd reason isnt a very good reason, in my opinion. How often is the cheaper option actually BETTER? Not very often. I might have to see a movie that has this method, but I like the actual costumes
I do agree that they could add the lights in afterward, like in the orginal movie. That would [probably] decrease the energy consumption for the suits.on line abortion pill misoprostol dose abortion medical abortion pill online
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