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Honda Enoch
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Posts: 53
TRON: The Ghost in the Machine

on Saturday, March, 23, 2013 3:55 PM
Ok, I did a forum search and found nothing on this. Forgive me if I missed it.


Anyone know where I can find these online to read (or download)?

Thanksbuy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online

My other ride is a Light Cycle.
 
Honda Enoch
User

Posts: 53
RE: TRON: The Ghost in the Machine

on Sunday, March, 24, 2013 10:55 PM
Found them, Read them, Wish I had those moments of my life back. buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online

My other ride is a Light Cycle.
 
Kat
User

Posts: 2,342
RE: TRON: The Ghost in the Machine

on Monday, March, 25, 2013 8:46 AM
Well, don't keep the secret from the rest of us... buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online

What do you want? I'm busy.


Program, please!


Chaos.... good news.
 
Traahn
User

Posts: 3,190
RE: TRON: The Ghost in the Machine

on Monday, March, 25, 2013 11:35 AM
I liked the potential of it with the first issue -- liked #1's art, too. But different artists came on board for the remaining, and the story ended up being not as "Tron" as I had hoped. I still enjoyed reading a unique take on things. Maybe support our resident 'lurkinghorror' (you can search his name here), the writer, and just buy from Slave Labor Graphics, if they have for sale, or get legiimate copies from Amazon or eBay. I think they put all 6 comics into one paperback book at one point, too, but I never got that. I just have the individual copies; and unread protected duplicates of most or all.

You have to remember that when this came out, Tron pretty much only had the original movie and surrounding media, and then the Tron 2.0 video game. That's not much for a Tron fan to nibble upon. Anything seeming somewhat officially Tron was a bit of a blessing and appreciated. For all we knew, there would potentially be no more Tron movies, games or anything.buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online


I'm getting out of here right now, and you guys are invited. -----^
 
Honda Enoch
User

Posts: 53
RE: TRON: The Ghost in the Machine

on Monday, March, 25, 2013 9:17 PM
Kat Wrote:Well, don't keep the secret from the rest of us...

At the request of the so-called writer of the comics, the links have been removed.

Email him for more information at landrywalker@gmail.combuy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online

My other ride is a Light Cycle.
 
Honda Enoch
User

Posts: 53
RE: TRON: The Ghost in the Machine

on Monday, March, 25, 2013 9:26 PM
Traahn Wrote:I liked the potential of it with the first issue -- liked #1's art, too. But different artists came on board for the remaining, and the story ended up being not as "Tron" as I had hoped. Maybe support our resident 'lurkinghorror' (you can search his name here), the writer, and just buy from Slave Labor Graphics, if they have for sale, or get legiimate copies from Amazon or eBay. I think they put all 6 comics into one paperback book at one point, too, but I never got that. I just have the individual copies.

You have to remember that when this came out, Tron pretty much only had the original movie and surrounding media, and then the Tron 2.0 video game. That's not much for a Tron fan to nibble upon. Anything seeming somewhat officially Tron was a bit of a blessing and appreciated. For all we knew, there would potentially be no more Tron movies, games or anything.


I lost interest when the white long eared character came into play. (you know who I am talking about).

I would like to see a long lasting comic book series. Like in the ranges of Spider-Man.buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online

My other ride is a Light Cycle.
 
J
User

Posts: 247
RE: TRON: The Ghost in the Machine

on Tuesday, March, 26, 2013 10:02 AM
It's a glitching mind-fry. I'm fond of saying Grant Morrison's Doom Patrol run made more sense or that you could read it upside down and it'd make almost the same amount of sense.

The depiction of Alan? Wow. Just wow. Yeah, I know his circumstances in 2.0 suck even worse than his situation in Legacy (Flynn still ups and vanishes, but he's confined to a lab instead of the boardroom, Lora was killed by imperfect digitization), but we're talking a VERY dark depiction - "Ron the Death Eater" dark. However, if you're writing a Dark Side!Alan, then you're going to want to get your mitts on a copy because it shows off that side and its potential in the nastiest way possible.

Now, here's what I REALLY like about it:

1) It pulls massive amounts of deconstruction on the whole franchise. The opening scene is Jet (well, actually "Blue" Jet, but long story) hunkered down in the old arcade, virulently technophobic, shell shocked over all the lives he had to take and terrified that the computer world seems to be calling him back, controlling him somehow. Alan all but hauls Jet to a shrink, and we get that line that's in my sig.

It's an entire universe in there, one we created, but it's beyond us now. Really. It's outgrown us. You know, every time you shut off your computer...do you know what you're doing? Have you ever reformatted a hard drive? Deleted old software? Destroyed an entire universe?"

Holy. Shit. No one in the entire canon - not even the fanfic - goes there. Flynn Sr, canonically, treats that world like a game or some fascinating experiment until it bites him in the ass, and it looked like he had pretty much written off the Programs in favor of the Isos. (Probably not intentionally, but...) Sam seems to be rather jaded and uncaring about the Programs; after all, the Grid's denizens were a savage and treacherous lot. His "brother" was a megalomaniac who was into brainwashing and torture, the great hero turned into a digital Darth Vader that held a disc to his neck and nearly sliced his throat before thousands of Programs cheering for his messy death (and how good of a look did Sam actually get at Tronzler turning on Clu?), the Programs that were supposed to help turn out to be amoral creeps, and his father was a broken hermit trying to trap him in that shithole. In the fanfic, Users go there and they're surprisingly calm about the things that happen there, and gloss over the implications over an entire universe that humans made and treat with carelessness.

It gets even more twisted when "Jet" makes the return trip to cyberspace. He's in the right place at the wrong time, de-rezzes a commander, and is put in charge of the uprising against a resurrected MCP. However, it all falls apart partly because he isn't a born warrior. It gets a lot of Programs killed. So much for "User as hero and savior."

2) The character notes on Jet, Mercury, and Ma3a.

2.0 is a first-person shooter, not a Bioware RPG. the characterization is a little thin, even for franchise standards. We figure out Jet's impulsive, a bit lazy, doesn't have a lot of self-preservation instinct, had a troubled adolescence that he grew out of, and the relationship with Alan is rocky at best. But not a lot about motivation, growth, or what makes him tick. The comic is actually pretty good with that, showing off an artistic bent, a fear that his parents' marriage was a sham, his terror and eventual acceptance of being a User. That desire to be a hero, the idealistic white knight that risks his life for others. Y'know, the good stuff.

(Now, if only I could figure out how the meeting between Jet and Tronzler is going to work in this fusion timeline I've got going...Probably will be the second most uncomfortable family reunion ever.)

Mercury? Even less characterization. In-game had only about 5 places where she helped Jet, and in half of those, her memory was gone. We saw she was a badass (fighting off about 5 Z-lots to buy Ma3a, Byte, and Jet time to get to the exit port), cunning (convincing the Kernel to put Jet in the lightcycle rink instead of de-rezzing him outright), a little cold (pretty much waiting to see if Jet could survive the lightcycle rink before blasting him out, with the implication that if he couldn't survive that, he wasn't worth saving), sneaky (her weapon of choice is a backstabing weapon improvised from a lightcycle baton), and that she and Jet had a mutual attraction that was unfortunately star-crossed (and that the game didn't bother to develop - damn it!). So, while the comic doesn't give her much, it's still better than nothing.

Ma3a? Again, very little characterization, and that creepy little implication that she wasn't an ordinary AI, but built from what remained of Lora, didn't get any attention in game and REALLY needed developing. Monolith let it go to waste, but the comic has a delightfully twisted scene where Lora's face pops up on every terminal in the lab and starts accusing Alan of abandoning her to die among other unpleasant things before shooting him and framing Jet for it.

3) Clarence (or "Green" Jet) and Red Jet could give Dyson and Gorn some competition in the Mind Screw/Mind Rape departments. Clarence shows up and reality takes an extended coffee break. Red just settles for false memories and blistering lectures about what he finds rooting around in Blue Jet's head. Too good not to use. Hell, some of Red's tactics actually would suit Dyson's little house of horrors.

So, overall, don't read it for plot. Just use it as a good characterization resource and idea generator when writing for the universe. buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online

It's an entire universe in there, one we created, but it's beyond us now. Really. It's outgrown us. You know, every time you shut off your computer...do you know what you're doing? Have you ever reformatted a hard drive? Deleted old software? Destroyed an entire universe?"

-- Jet Bradley, Tron: Ghost in the Machine on why being a User isn't necessarily a good thing.
 
Honda Enoch
User

Posts: 53
RE: TRON: The Ghost in the Machine

on Tuesday, March, 26, 2013 1:52 PM
See, you are talking about things that happened in Tron 2.0. I hate it when they put major plot points into a video game (ironic for this story I know) But I am not a big gamer and was even less of one back then. So without playing the game, I am lost to story it provided. I am not a huge comic book person but I will read them for the story.buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online

My other ride is a Light Cycle.
 
J
User

Posts: 247
RE: TRON: The Ghost in the Machine

on Tuesday, March, 26, 2013 4:34 PM
Ah. I actually read the comic before playing the game as well. Even more of a mind-fryer. Made a bit more sense after playing the game, but not by much.

Well, if you're not a gamer, then go dig up a Let's Play. I'm a fan of
Parlock's - he includes all the cutscenes, most emails (the full list is on Tron wiki), and is an obvious fan. buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online

It's an entire universe in there, one we created, but it's beyond us now. Really. It's outgrown us. You know, every time you shut off your computer...do you know what you're doing? Have you ever reformatted a hard drive? Deleted old software? Destroyed an entire universe?"

-- Jet Bradley, Tron: Ghost in the Machine on why being a User isn't necessarily a good thing.
 
Kat
User

Posts: 2,342
RE: TRON: The Ghost in the Machine

on Tuesday, March, 26, 2013 6:28 PM
Honda Enoch Wrote:
Kat Wrote:Well, don't keep the secret from the rest of us...

Well it was not simple. I did a Google search for each individual issue Found them all one one site, but you can not search the site. so had to Google search each one.

So to help you all out I will share each link.
.

Thanks! I tried Googling once but just found a few vague plot synopses.




J Wrote:Holy. Shit. No one in the entire canon - not even the fanfic - goes there.

Oh, I have an OC who goes there on a regular basis. As well as wondering whether we should merge the two worlds or whether human beings wouldn't just find it another place to fuck up. It's just a difficult mindset to make jive with her position in most of my writing, which is "she's friends with Sam and helping with the project;" go too far into it and you start asking wtf she's doing there, then, if she's going to be such a Negative Nancy (it's just that she's not the sort to drink the kool-aid-- Flynn was all excited about it, Sam believes in it 'cause his dad did and Quorra's the same way... the only canon characters i could see being slightly reticent are Alan, and Walter Gibbs, and even Alan might well go on just because he was so gung-ho about Flynn).

(I actually have a short of her introspective when she's old that I might eventually post here if it can stand on its own without too much explanation, that deals with some of that stuff briefly.)


I think they have a hell of a time in canon because holy shit... how do you even acknowledge it without it all falling apart around your ears? You'd never throw away a computer, or a microwave. Shit, even my damn crock-pot is programmable. You'd never ever EVER delete a program again. You'd never USE a computer again, worried about straining your programs. Sends the whole storyline down the drain if everyone's just sitting at their computer desks biting their nails forevermore, not wanting to touch the thing.

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What do you want? I'm busy.


Program, please!


Chaos.... good news.
 
Honda Enoch
User

Posts: 53
RE: TRON: The Ghost in the Machine

on Tuesday, March, 26, 2013 7:44 PM
J Wrote:Ah. I actually read the comic before playing the game as well. Even more of a mind-fryer. Made a bit more sense after playing the game, but not by much.

Well, if you're not a gamer, then go dig up a Let's Play. I'm a fan of Parlock's - he includes all the cutscenes, most emails (the full list is on Tron wiki), and is an obvious fan.


WOW, Thanks for the link. I will watch them tonight.

Kat Wrote:
Thanks! I tried Googling once but just found a few vague plot synopses.


Yeah I found all those too.buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online

My other ride is a Light Cycle.
 
KingJ.exe
User

Posts: 371
RE: TRON: The Ghost in the Machine

on Wednesday, March, 27, 2013 12:15 AM
I "went there" for a while in my own head, and I finally settled on something. Programs, however we use them, are MADE to serve the users. Heck, even Ram talks about how nice it is to help people plan for their future needs. They LIKE it. Now the pinch was, what happens when a program reaches the end of its usefulness to the User and is "deleted"? I've come up with two solutions that make me feel good: One, a program, when he is deleted by a user, isn't really killed, but goes into retirement. The data and space he once used is free, and he much less active. It would also explain why our computers STILL get slower after we uninstall a bunch of programs.

Option two is a bit more mean, so to speak. When a program is deleted, it dies, but it dies as a person who has lived a long, fulfilling life. He look forward to the big recycle bin in the sky. It's a natural part of life for a program.

So that's how I reconciled the "programs are 'people' too" dilemma.buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online

Everybody go join End of Line, an awesome TRON Roleplay forum! http://troneol.b1.jcink.com/index.php?
 
J
User

Posts: 247
RE: TRON: The Ghost in the Machine

on Wednesday, March, 27, 2013 5:30 AM
There's a whole new school of ethics that would have to be invented. Ghost in the Machine's big question, though...Once I saw that question, I couldn't un-see it. And it was the comic that sent me into "I HAVE TO WRITE THIS GUY" when it came to the character of Jet. It's a very powerful thing to acknowledge, and to try and struggle with. I'm not sure Disney canon is going to take that route with Sam. buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online

It's an entire universe in there, one we created, but it's beyond us now. Really. It's outgrown us. You know, every time you shut off your computer...do you know what you're doing? Have you ever reformatted a hard drive? Deleted old software? Destroyed an entire universe?"

-- Jet Bradley, Tron: Ghost in the Machine on why being a User isn't necessarily a good thing.
 
Honda Enoch
User

Posts: 53
RE: TRON: The Ghost in the Machine

on Wednesday, March, 27, 2013 2:34 PM
KingJ.exe Wrote:I "went there" for a while in my own head, and I finally settled on something. Programs, however we use them, are MADE to serve the users. Heck, even Ram talks about how nice it is to help people plan for their future needs. They LIKE it. Now the pinch was, what happens when a program reaches the end of its usefulness to the User and is "deleted"? I've come up with two solutions that make me feel good: One, a program, when he is deleted by a user, isn't really killed, but goes into retirement. The data and space he once used is free, and he much less active. It would also explain why our computers STILL get slower after we uninstall a bunch of programs.

But what happens when we do a defrag or a format?

KingJ.exe Wrote:Option two is a bit more mean, so to speak. When a program is deleted, it dies,

Ther are some programs i like to think that about. All these ad crap they install when you upload something, I also like to think that about VISTA when I formatted that old hard drive.buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online

My other ride is a Light Cycle.
 
J
User

Posts: 247
RE: TRON: The Ghost in the Machine

on Wednesday, March, 27, 2013 5:30 PM
Defrag might just be like quarterly housing assignments at university. The data's just shuffled around in a more efficient format.

A reformat? Ugh. That level of 2.0 was a nightmare. A red wall of death creeping ever closer, with the Zombie Apocalypse on your heels, and the ICPs throwing themselves at you and Ma3a in a suicidal, "taking you with me" charge. Meanwhile, Byte tries to get philosophical as the wall of death evaporates everything it touches and creeps in dangerously close...From a Program standpoint, it's probably a cross of tsunami and nuclear bomb. Anyone who can't evacuate fast enough killed in a nasty (but quick) fashion.buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online

It's an entire universe in there, one we created, but it's beyond us now. Really. It's outgrown us. You know, every time you shut off your computer...do you know what you're doing? Have you ever reformatted a hard drive? Deleted old software? Destroyed an entire universe?"

-- Jet Bradley, Tron: Ghost in the Machine on why being a User isn't necessarily a good thing.
 
lurkinghorror
User

Posts: 803
RE: TRON: The Ghost in the Machine

on Wednesday, March, 27, 2013 6:55 PM
I could write a book on the problems we faced when working on Tron: Ghost in the Machine. Our original project was a prequel story called Rise of the MCP. Unfortunately the direction from Disney was to use only elements from 2.0. This came late in the game. there were other factors that lead to this project being a mess. We managed ot squeeze in some broad strokes with things, but editorial direction mid-project, as well as changing of artists and various productions problems...

Well, it was a mess. I'm happy with the broad strokes concept, and happier with the original pitch - elements of which have crept into other areas of the franchise. But the final execution... it was what it was.

On a related note: Please do not pirate these. Whether the project turned out well or not: It's very much not cool to see something you gave up years of your life making happen, with relatively no payment, reduced to: "Download it here for free!".

To make it clearer as to why I find it a slap in the face: Disney didn't pay us to do this. We paid Disney. If you want the book, it's available for purchase. Bare minimum, please don't broadcast links to pirated copies. I have released many projects online for free. I support free distribution in many way. This is not one of them.buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online


 
lurkinghorror
User

Posts: 803
RE: TRON: The Ghost in the Machine

on Wednesday, March, 27, 2013 7:03 PM
J Wrote:So, overall, don't read it for plot. Just use it as a good characterization resource and idea generator when writing for the universe.

I like that summary. The high concept part of the approach to the mechanics of the Tron universe is the part of the project I'm still happy with. I think some individual scenes work well. But the overall project and the path the story ended up taking to get there... not as much.
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Honda Enoch
User

Posts: 53
RE: TRON: The Ghost in the Machine

on Wednesday, March, 27, 2013 8:05 PM
lurkinghorror Wrote:On a related note: Please do not pirate these. Whether the project turned out well or not: It's very much not cool to see something you gave up years of your life making happen, with relatively no payment, reduced to: "Download it here for free!".

To make it clearer as to why I find it a slap in the face: Disney didn't pay us to do this. We paid Disney. If you want the book, it's available for purchase. Bare minimum, please don't broadcast links to pirated copies. I have released many projects online for free. I support free distribution in many way. This is not one of them.

Sorry, but as I said in another thread on this board...
Honda Enoch Wrote:But here is my take on copyright laws.

If someone uses copyrighted material (images, sounds, videos) for anything they are NOT MAKING MONEY from, and they give proper credit. Then there should be no issues.

Example. I work in Second Life. A few years ago we rebuilt the entire Magic Kingdom from Walt Disney World. We used official sounds from the park, images, attraction map layouts, ect. We called the park Mouse World. We called the attractions the names from the real park, The Haunted Mansion, ect. We DID NOT CHARGE admission. We had thousands of visitors a day and most all said "now I need to visit the real park".

My Point, We used copy righted material but did NOT make money from it. So IMO it was a "No harm, no foul" situation. (BTW Yes Disney Co. knew about us. we had WDW park managers working with us at times).


So to download videos, music for free for your own personal use. I don't see a problem. As I said in another thread I DLed all 19 T:U episodes, I have hundreds of thousands of movies and shows DLed. I do not sell them. I do not hold public showings. So no harm, no foul.

Artist that complain that their music, videos, drawings, ect are being downloaded for free need to think about it in a different light. Be happy that the fans want to hear, read, see your work. Not everyone can afford to buy this kind of stuff. I myself have been out of work for about 2 years. So does that mean I should do without? That I should stop being a Tron fan because I can not read the novels? What about videos of people playing the video games? I do not like playing video games, so I am thankful someone made a video of them so I can get the story. Same with Uprising. They don't air anymore. I missed them all when they were on TV. They are not available on DVD. So I should just miss out? From your comment of you saying you did not get paid by Disney to do this, it sounds like you did it because you are a Tron fan and love the story idea and wanted to share it with other Tron fans. So that is what is happening. Tron fans are sharing it with other Tron fans. Like it or not, this is the digital age. Every form of media should be free to all.buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online

My other ride is a Light Cycle.
 
lurkinghorror
User

Posts: 803
RE: TRON: The Ghost in the Machine

on Wednesday, March, 27, 2013 8:21 PM
Honda Enoch Wrote:Artist that complain that their music, videos, drawings, ect are being downloaded for free need to think about it in a different light. Be happy that the fans want to hear, read, see your work. Not everyone can afford to buy this kind of stuff. I myself have been out of work for about 2 years. So does that mean I should do without? That I should stop being a Tron fan because I can not read the novels? What about videos of people playing the video games? I do not like playing video games, so I am thankful someone made a video of them so I can get the story. Same with Uprising. They don't air anymore. I missed them all when they were on TV. They are not available on DVD. So I should just miss out? From your comment of you saying you did not get paid by Disney to do this, it sounds like you did it because you are a Tron fan and love the story idea and wanted to share it with other Tron fans. So that is what is happening. Tron fans are sharing it with other Tron fans. Like it or not, this is the digital age. Every form of media should be free to all.

You're not just downloading these books. You're providing links for everyone else on this forum. I'd prefer you do not do that.

These books still need to be paid for. The debt to Disney to produce these still exists. I'm sorry you are out of work. I was out of work longer when I produced this series. It happens, it's horrible and yes, you go without pirating. I absolutely expect that. We all make sacrifices. At a time when Tron was being buried by it's owners, I made my sacrifices so that there could be official Tron material available for Tron fans.

You say you had scoured the internet to find these? Why didn't you just write me? I'm on Facebook and Twitter and even on these forums. I am very easy to find and I have given away many copies of this book to fellow Tron fans just to share.

As you say: This is the digital era. The creators of almost anything you might want are only an email away. Asking is the correct approach. Not just taking whatever you want because you can.

Again: Please remove the links.
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Honda Enoch
User

Posts: 53
RE: TRON: The Ghost in the Machine

on Wednesday, March, 27, 2013 8:44 PM
lurkinghorror Wrote:You're not just downloading these books. You're providing links for everyone else on this forum. I'd prefer you do not do that.

But I am not charging for them, I am not making money from them. I am just a Tron fan sharing with other Tron fans. Someone asked for them, so I provided them.

lurkinghorror Wrote:These books still need to be paid for. The debt to Disney to produce these still exists. I'm sorry you are out of work. I was out of work longer when I produced this series. It happens, it's horrible and yes, you go without pirating. I absolutely expect that. We all make sacrifices. At a time when Tron was being buried by it's owners, I made my sacrifices so that there could be official Tron material available for Tron fans.

That's the price that comes with the job or being a comic book writer. I am sorry for your loss.

lurkinghorror Wrote:You say you had scoured the internet to find these? Why didn't you just write me? I'm on Facebook and Twitter and even on these forums. I am very easy to find and I have given away many copies of this book to fellow Tron fans just to share.

Um. I don't know you. I have no idea who the writer was, and even if I did I wouldn't expect them to be on a fan forum. I still don't know that you are for sure the writer. I did post on here asking if anyone knew where to find them. that's what this thread was to start. Never got a reply. So I continued to do the work myself.

lurkinghorror Wrote:As you say: This is the digital era. The creators of almost anything you might want are only an email away. Asking is the correct approach. Not just taking whatever you want because you can.

Again. How was I to know the writer was on a fan forum? Would you go to a Spider-man forum and expect Stan Lee to be there? I posted this thread asking, No reply.

lurkinghorror Wrote:Again: Please remove the links.
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My other ride is a Light Cycle.
 
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